Well an uppercase ASCII char is a different char than its lowercase counterpart. I would argue that not differentiating between them is an arbitrary rule that doesn’t make any sense, and in many cases, is more computationally difficult as it involves more comparisons and string manipulations (converting everything to lower case).
And the result is that you ultimately get files with visually distinct names, that aren’t actually treated as distinct, and so there is a disconnect from how we process information and how the computer is doing it.
‘A’ != ‘a’, they are just as unequal as ‘a’ and ‘b’
Edit: I would say the use case is exactly the same as programming case sensitivity, characters have meaning and capitalizing them has intent. Casing strategies are immensely prevalent in programming and carry a lot of weight for identifying programmers’ intent (properties vs backing fields as an example) similar intent can be shown with file names.
Most of my frustration comes from combining cases insensitive folders/files with git and then running my code on another machine. If you aren’t coding where you have hundreds of files that import other files, I could see this being a non issues.
Mostly Windows, and construction industry. So projects generate anywhere from a few hundred to up to a hundred thousand files.
Everyone has their own filesystem, and then you often have one formal and multiple informal exchange platforms. You still have people throwing around stuff in E-Mails too.
It is a mess. But in this mess i didn’t come acrosse people complaining they couldnt find a file because of the letters case yet.
I see that it could be different for programmers, but i dont see that apples solution of treating upper and lowercase as identical name is the solution there, rather than working with explicit file naming conventions in the program.
You may also want to try, for example, the files “a1”, “a2”, “a3”, and “a10”. Lexicographically, “a2”>“a10”, but my file browser displays “a10” after “a2”.
if you look for a file you type the first letters for the file explorer to jump to the matching name. Retype to jump to the next fitting entry. If you don’t know about this, you can put your string in the search field. If you don’t know about this, you can sort by metadata like file size or date of last change.
It is a non problem.
Also most workplaces tend to develop a file naming convention, either explicitly or implicitly.
But do I type ‘ImportantFile’, or ‘importantfile’?
As I understand it, if I searched for either of these strings in a case sensitive file system, I would not find a file called ‘IMPORTANTFILE’.
At best, a case sensitive file system makes naming conventions more complex. At worst , it obfuscates files. I just can’t imagine a scenario where it would be helpful. Do you really see a need to have a file called ‘aaaAaa’ and a totally separate one called ‘aaAaaa’?
I’m with you, and not just from a “human” perspective. Also when writing small programs meant to be relatively lean/simple it can be a problem when the user expects it to find a particular file regardless of its case (will it be DOOM.WAD or doom.wad? Doom.wad? Doom.WAD? … guess it’ll have to be [Dd][Oo][Oo][Mm].[Ww][Aa][Dd] and import some globbing library as extra dependency… that, or list the whole directory regardless its size and lower/upper every single filename until you find a matching one…)
Oh jeez, I hadn’t even thought about capitalisation in the file extension. That would be especially confusing if extensions are hidden- the user would be presented with two files that look exactly the same.
Think the other way around: What’s the use case for case insensitive file names? Does it justify the effort and complexity for the filesystem and the programs to know the difference between lower and upper space chars?
The use case for case insensitive file names is all of history has never cared about what case the letters are in for a folder with someone’s name or a folder with an address or a folder for a project name.
Use case for case insensitive file names is literally all of history. All of it.
On Mac when I rename a folder from “FOO” to “foo” git sees them as the same folder so no change is committed. In JavaScript I import a file from “foo” so locally that works. Commit my code and someone else pulls in my changes on their machine. But on their machine the folder is still “FOO” so importing from “foo” doesn’t work.
NTFS absolutely supports case sensitivity but, presumably for consistency with FAT and FAT32 (Windows is all about backwards compatibility), and for the sake of Average-Joe-User who’s only interaction with the filesystem is opening Word and Excel docs, it doesn’t by default.
Were you talking about MacOS? It’s been a long time since I last had to use it but I assumed it was case sensitive because it’s Unix based. Uh maybe ignore me then!
Yeah. They have both case sensitive and case insensitive options when you format your drive. It used to default to case insensitive. I haven’t formatted my boot drive in a long time, so I can’t say what it defaults to today.
MacOS uses the APFS file system format nowadays, and used HFS+ before that. FAT and ExFAT formats are supported too. However, the NTFS format needs third party software to work.
…and whoever decided a file system should be case insensitive by default, I hate you.
What’s the use case for case sensitive file names
Well an uppercase ASCII char is a different char than its lowercase counterpart. I would argue that not differentiating between them is an arbitrary rule that doesn’t make any sense, and in many cases, is more computationally difficult as it involves more comparisons and string manipulations (converting everything to lower case).
And the result is that you ultimately get files with visually distinct names, that aren’t actually treated as distinct, and so there is a disconnect from how we process information and how the computer is doing it.
‘A’ != ‘a’, they are just as unequal as ‘a’ and ‘b’
Edit: I would say the use case is exactly the same as programming case sensitivity, characters have meaning and capitalizing them has intent. Casing strategies are immensely prevalent in programming and carry a lot of weight for identifying programmers’ intent (properties vs backing fields as an example) similar intent can be shown with file names.
Case insensitive handling protects end-users from doing “bad” things and confusion.
I work with a lot of users and a lot of files in my job.
I don’t remember a single case, where someone had an issue because of upper- or lowercase confusions.
Most of my frustration comes from combining cases insensitive folders/files with git and then running my code on another machine. If you aren’t coding where you have hundreds of files that import other files, I could see this being a non issues.
On a Linux environment? Mind sharing the usage area?
Mostly Windows, and construction industry. So projects generate anywhere from a few hundred to up to a hundred thousand files.
Everyone has their own filesystem, and then you often have one formal and multiple informal exchange platforms. You still have people throwing around stuff in E-Mails too.
It is a mess. But in this mess i didn’t come acrosse people complaining they couldnt find a file because of the letters case yet.
I see that it could be different for programmers, but i dont see that apples solution of treating upper and lowercase as identical name is the solution there, rather than working with explicit file naming conventions in the program.
Windows is / Windows filesystems are case insensitive too.
Hmm you’re right. I didnt notice so far, nor was it brought up as an issue.
You can activate case sensitivity since Win 10 or so.
Simple solution: only allow lower case characters in file names.
Like windows and their forbidden folder names
Me working on a case insensitive DB collation 🤡🚀🐱🏍
If I have four files, a.txt, A.txt, b.txt, and B.txt, in what order do they appear when I sort alphabetically?
edit: I don’t understand why this was downvoted?
Might depend on your file browser.
You may also want to try, for example, the files “a1”, “a2”, “a3”, and “a10”. Lexicographically, “a2”>“a10”, but my file browser displays “a10” after “a2”.
a, A, b, B?
A computer will spit out A, B, a, b
See also: ASCII chart
So if someone tells me to look for a file amongst a long list, I need to look in two different areas- the uppercase and lowercase areas.
I get why it’s more technically correct to differentiate, but from the perspective of a human user, it’s a pain in the ass.
if you look for a file you type the first letters for the file explorer to jump to the matching name. Retype to jump to the next fitting entry. If you don’t know about this, you can put your string in the search field. If you don’t know about this, you can sort by metadata like file size or date of last change.
It is a non problem.
Also most workplaces tend to develop a file naming convention, either explicitly or implicitly.
But do I type ‘ImportantFile’, or ‘importantfile’?
As I understand it, if I searched for either of these strings in a case sensitive file system, I would not find a file called ‘IMPORTANTFILE’.
At best, a case sensitive file system makes naming conventions more complex. At worst , it obfuscates files. I just can’t imagine a scenario where it would be helpful. Do you really see a need to have a file called ‘aaaAaa’ and a totally separate one called ‘aaAaaa’?
I’m with you, and not just from a “human” perspective. Also when writing small programs meant to be relatively lean/simple it can be a problem when the user expects it to find a particular file regardless of its case (will it be
DOOM.WADordoom.wad?Doom.wad?Doom.WAD? … guess it’ll have to be[Dd][Oo][Oo][Mm].[Ww][Aa][Dd]and import some globbing library as extra dependency… that, or list the whole directory regardless its size andlower/upperevery single filename until you find a matching one…)Oh jeez, I hadn’t even thought about capitalisation in the file extension. That would be especially confusing if extensions are hidden- the user would be presented with two files that look exactly the same.
Why would you order lowercase before uppercase?
Ascending order implies going from low to high
I guess the problem is that they were thinking First to Last when putting it in this order. Kind of like the image here:
Think the other way around: What’s the use case for case insensitive file names? Does it justify the effort and complexity for the filesystem and the programs to know the difference between lower and upper space chars?
The use case for case insensitive file names is all of history has never cared about what case the letters are in for a folder with someone’s name or a folder with an address or a folder for a project name.
Use case for case insensitive file names is literally all of history. All of it.
On Mac when I rename a folder from “FOO” to “foo” git sees them as the same folder so no change is committed. In JavaScript I import a file from “foo” so locally that works. Commit my code and someone else pulls in my changes on their machine. But on their machine the folder is still “FOO” so importing from “foo” doesn’t work.
Suffering
Because I want to?
The moment when you try to rename a folder in windows from Hello to hello and it doesn’t work.
Yes, so annoying especially when using source control which is case sensitive.
Rename Hello hello2
Commit
Rename hello2 hello
Commit
Yes, that’s exactly what I do when I rename lol
NTFS absolutely supports case sensitivity but, presumably for consistency with FAT and FAT32 (Windows is all about backwards compatibility), and for the sake of Average-Joe-User who’s only interaction with the filesystem is opening Word and Excel docs, it doesn’t by default.
All that said, it can be set on a per-directory basis: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/case-sensitivity
What’s a windows?
Were you talking about MacOS? It’s been a long time since I last had to use it but I assumed it was case sensitive because it’s Unix based. Uh maybe ignore me then!
Yeah. They have both case sensitive and case insensitive options when you format your drive. It used to default to case insensitive. I haven’t formatted my boot drive in a long time, so I can’t say what it defaults to today.
MacOS uses the APFS file system format nowadays, and used HFS+ before that. FAT and ExFAT formats are supported too. However, the NTFS format needs third party software to work.