That’s not what I am saying. Women and men can rise above those expectations. It’s called feminism.
Wrong, you just described patriarchy. You do not know what that word means. You understand it as “men good, women bad”. You described an aspect of patriarchy as it effects both women’s expectations of men and men’s expectations of women.
Of course everyone is responsible for their own actions. However when discussing the way a group of people, especially such a wide one as half the population, you use terms that accurately describe the ideologies at work rather than the group itself. Because to do so builds stereotypes and reinforces false consciousness related to that group. In your case, you are stuck in the male patriarchal false consciousness that is clouding your ability to see that we are saying the same thing.
That’s not what I am saying. Women and men can rise above those expectations. It’s called feminism.
No, it’s not. It’s called autonomy.
“men good, women bad”
Wrong. I never said nor implied anything like this.
You described an aspect of patriarchy as it effects both women’s expectations of men and men’s expectations of women.
It’s an aspect of the patriarchy, but it stems from consumerism and greed.
you use terms that accurately describe the ideologies at work rather than the group itself.
Wrong. I’m telling you uncomfortable truths so you have to plug your ears and deny.
Because to do so builds stereotypes
No. Seeing their actions builds the stereotype. If they can’t rise above other people’s expectations, then it coincidentally reinforces the idea that they can’t think for themselves.
In your case, you are stuck in the male patriarchal false consciousness that is clouding your ability to see that we are saying the same thing.
In your case, you’re desperate to prove that “feminism is the solution and the patriarchy is the problem” when the real issue is greed and consumerism.
We can just agree to disagree here. If you’re going to be pretentious and patronizing by saying “I agree but I don’t understand the words being used,” then just re-read this comment.
Patriarchy and capitalism go hand in hand. We are still saying the same thing. You do not know what those words mean. You take it as patronizing because it would be silly for you to not know what that word means.
Except it’s not silly. It’s extremely common. That’s why there’s a whole academic theory about it. False consciousness. It’s a very hard thing to break yourself out of. It’s kinda like alcoholic rehab. The first step is admitting you are in it and beginning to deconstruct it.
Our entire society is built in reinforcing these false consciousness. It is very very difficult to break them. As I said in another thread to you. I hope this is a seed of words and ideas that hopefully someone who speaks your language better will water and sprout into understanding.
I’m sorry that this is all sounding patronizing and elitist and whatever else that makes you feel small. I genuinely do. Please take everything I have said how I intended it. With love and hope and empathy and understanding.
Hmm, i think you’re too ardent in your beliefs. Their point is that there are women who are aware that what they’re doing is leveraging their position to obtain material possessions. This kind of thing isn’t specific to any gender or ideology.
Would you say that it is because of patriarchy that a man (who can do it) leverages his looks for material gain? It’s just greed and opulence.
To quote one of the most famous feminist writers, bell hooks
“It is obvious that many women have appropriated feminism to serve their own ends, especially those white women who have been at the forefront of the movement; but rather than resigning myself to this appropriation I choose to re-appropriate the term “feminism,” to focus on the fact that to be “feminist” in any authentic sense of the term is to want for all people, female and male, liberation from sexist role patterns, domination, and oppression.”
You are talking about an intersection of both patriarchy and capitalism. Ideologies do not exist in bubbles. They live and breath and interact with other ideologies to support itself.
Patriarchy and capitalism go hand in hand. We are still saying the same thing.
They are related, but not the same. We are not saying the same thing.
You do not know what those words mean.
Ironic, considering you seem to literally believe capitalism and patriarchy mean the same thing.
You take it as patronizing because it would be silly for you to not know what that word means.
I take it as patronizing because it is and I’ve dealt with your kind before.
I am going to have to block you now, though, without reading the rest of your drivel.
Re-read my previous comments if you have any further misunderstandings or still believe we are in agreement. We are not and you are being willfully ignorant if you think otherwise.
You may have the last word. I can tell you’re dying for it.
That’s not what I am saying. Women and men can rise above those expectations. It’s called feminism.
Wrong, you just described patriarchy. You do not know what that word means. You understand it as “men good, women bad”. You described an aspect of patriarchy as it effects both women’s expectations of men and men’s expectations of women.
Of course everyone is responsible for their own actions. However when discussing the way a group of people, especially such a wide one as half the population, you use terms that accurately describe the ideologies at work rather than the group itself. Because to do so builds stereotypes and reinforces false consciousness related to that group. In your case, you are stuck in the male patriarchal false consciousness that is clouding your ability to see that we are saying the same thing.
No, it’s not. It’s called autonomy.
Wrong. I never said nor implied anything like this.
It’s an aspect of the patriarchy, but it stems from consumerism and greed.
Wrong. I’m telling you uncomfortable truths so you have to plug your ears and deny.
No. Seeing their actions builds the stereotype. If they can’t rise above other people’s expectations, then it coincidentally reinforces the idea that they can’t think for themselves.
In your case, you’re desperate to prove that “feminism is the solution and the patriarchy is the problem” when the real issue is greed and consumerism.
We can just agree to disagree here. If you’re going to be pretentious and patronizing by saying “I agree but I don’t understand the words being used,” then just re-read this comment.
Patriarchy and capitalism go hand in hand. We are still saying the same thing. You do not know what those words mean. You take it as patronizing because it would be silly for you to not know what that word means.
Except it’s not silly. It’s extremely common. That’s why there’s a whole academic theory about it. False consciousness. It’s a very hard thing to break yourself out of. It’s kinda like alcoholic rehab. The first step is admitting you are in it and beginning to deconstruct it.
Our entire society is built in reinforcing these false consciousness. It is very very difficult to break them. As I said in another thread to you. I hope this is a seed of words and ideas that hopefully someone who speaks your language better will water and sprout into understanding.
I’m sorry that this is all sounding patronizing and elitist and whatever else that makes you feel small. I genuinely do. Please take everything I have said how I intended it. With love and hope and empathy and understanding.
Hmm, i think you’re too ardent in your beliefs. Their point is that there are women who are aware that what they’re doing is leveraging their position to obtain material possessions. This kind of thing isn’t specific to any gender or ideology.
Would you say that it is because of patriarchy that a man (who can do it) leverages his looks for material gain? It’s just greed and opulence.
To quote one of the most famous feminist writers, bell hooks
“It is obvious that many women have appropriated feminism to serve their own ends, especially those white women who have been at the forefront of the movement; but rather than resigning myself to this appropriation I choose to re-appropriate the term “feminism,” to focus on the fact that to be “feminist” in any authentic sense of the term is to want for all people, female and male, liberation from sexist role patterns, domination, and oppression.”
You are talking about an intersection of both patriarchy and capitalism. Ideologies do not exist in bubbles. They live and breath and interact with other ideologies to support itself.
They are related, but not the same. We are not saying the same thing.
Ironic, considering you seem to literally believe capitalism and patriarchy mean the same thing.
I take it as patronizing because it is and I’ve dealt with your kind before.
I am going to have to block you now, though, without reading the rest of your drivel.
Re-read my previous comments if you have any further misunderstandings or still believe we are in agreement. We are not and you are being willfully ignorant if you think otherwise.
You may have the last word. I can tell you’re dying for it.