• OpenStars
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    18 hours ago

    We all - well, the vast majority of us - thought similarly: somehow we would skip right past the Bell Riots and enjoy the Star Trek future immediately, with no effort and especially no responsibilities required on our part. Arguably we weren’t “stupid” so much as “naive”. Now, we know (a little bit) better.

    Biden lied. Trump lied. Harris lied. These are the ones who ran for the USA President btw. Hence there were no “good” choices, only stupid ones. People are terrible at nuances though, especially when their choice of echo chamber leads their thinking. (And we are no exception: some of my posts along those lines are among the most downvoted that certain communities had ever had at that point, despite later actually happening irl, e.g. Biden needing to step down, we REALLY don’t seem to want the real, uncomfortable truths, even here on the Fediverse).

    Which is why I don’t even mind a transition to authoritarianism - call me crazy, but in retrospect, democracy looks like it was always bound to have failed. (To be clear, I mean the USA brand, whereas the EU updated version remains unclear how well it can handle the transition from the information era to our current dis- and mis-info one.) People are going to cry about it, and also die from it - I am definitely among the former, and not entirely unlikely to be among the latter as well - but history will march on regardless of our personal feelings about the subject. The only choice we have is whether we choose to see it coming in advance, or have to deal with the fall-out after it happens.

    Democracy required too much personal responsibility from people who simply did not have that to offer. Therefore when one set of oligarchs decided to check out and go to sleep for awhile, and a new set decided to rise up and take their places, we had next to no defenses to halt that transition. And no matter how much we wish we could, nobody can beat karma: we chose to remain vulnerable for centuries, and now we have paid the ultimate price and have given up our ability to control our futures anymore.

    This is where ML and Grad and HB will say that the time for a violent upheaval of society followed by non-capitalist socialism to rise is upon us, and boy will they be surprised when just like Russia, China, and North Korea already are not “socialist”, nor will the USA become thus either, bc that is not a thing really that has ever existed (nor will it). Nor would they want it or be happy if it somehow did, and they actually had to work the fields to be truly equal. I get it - it’s rough to grow up, it truly is.

    • fxomt
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      18 hours ago

      Authoritarianism is a hell of its own. Despite your flawed democracy in Saudi Arabia i would pay the ultimate price if the feds had eyes on my account, or the stuff i’ve written. I haven’t protested since it’s illegal, i haven’t ever broken a law ever, yet i could pay with my life.

      The walls have eyes, at least that’s how i feel sometimes. I feel anxious thinking of my future, wondering if i’ll even be alive then.

      Life here is truly isolating, it feels like i’m the weird one, due to me being much more “westernized” than my peers, and can’t have even platonic relationships with the opposite sex. That’s 50% of the population that i’m unable to talk to.

      I get you all in America feel scared, but i wouldn’t wish for anyone to live like this. We practically have a caste system, too. Where “lower” races are enslaved (actual slavery, not hyperbole) and the workers’ rights here are brutal.

      I’ve read orwell’s works and it really hits me deep, because i see many similarities in it. Perhaps not the ridiculousness of the animals or hate week etc, but more the fear that winston feels. He knew he was a dead man once he started writing against the party.

      You can safely criticize your government, i’m putting my neck out here just writing this comment. Yet i’ve done it hundreds of times, it’s nice to know i’m not the only one alone, I’ve accepted my potential fate. If they want to, they can erase me any time they want. After all, who will oppose them?

      Do know that i’m not trying to make your problems seem small, just explaining why authoritarianism is horrible. I really do hope you are safe in the US, or manage to leave.

      Sorry for the rambling, lol

      • OpenStars
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        29 hours ago

        You see what you do bc you are an intelligent person, who has learned to trust only what you see with your very own eyes. “1+1=2”, not bc you or I say it is, but bc it’s TRUE, and you have bothered to seek an understanding of such things. However, others are not this way.

        Ironically they can be just as and oddly enough even more intelligent than us in some ways, but when confronted with new facts, choose to suspend their critical thinking facilities and trust “daddy” or “mommy” to have made the right choices for them. “1+1=whatever authority says” for these folks.

        It’s a wonderful adaptation that lowers the energy to have to think through every single tiny thing, and in a society where the leaders actually care about their people can work out extremely well, however given the real world especially the one we live in today… these “sheeple” have made themselves into being highly dependent upon the good faith of their leaders.

        And they are the ones happier and more emotionally well adjusted than we are, who are constantly unhappy, watching our brethren getting eaten alive and caring not one tiny bit about it all, but just being taken care of. They are the ones who are “correct”. Btw, did you believe me just then? Good. Freedom requires eternal vigilance.

        These people btw are more likely to keep their jobs and do well in society, rising to higher positions of authority themselves and are thus “better adjusted” than we are. That is a true fact. Our critical thinking doesn’t “help” us, if our goal is to rise in our authoritarian societies. However, evolution seeks not just one but a variety of solutions, and society always hedges its best to keep others around that don’t match the prevailing trends - outside of an authoritian regime, those who are authoritian still existed, while inside of such a regime, we remained as the hold-outs, in case we were ever needed.

        Notice in my prior response my use of democracy in the past tense. We may never have elections again in the USA, but even if we do, we seem unwilling to pay the price of education of our populace and especially the critical thinking facilities that would be required for it to function. We will die as a nation due to our negligence and arrogance to have ignored literally the most important and basic things that would have been necessary to have continued to function.

        Our media in particular cannot be trusted as all the variety of sides lie. 1+1=3, 1+1=-5, 1+1=πei√, they’ll say anything at all if it gets them clicks and therefore attention. And not even merely for money - for some, the fame alone is enough, and then algorithms refuse to put forth excellent content that is true, and instead promotes cute people who wiggle their butts or whatever. Btw what I’m saying here is a lie too, surely, in the sense that not all of it is the truth. The latter is so hard to find, in that the tiniest misstep throws it all off - i.e. 1+1=1.1? no wait, was it =2.1, perhaps 2.01? Even the smallest mistake allows someone to criticize and say “nuh uh, you are inaccurate in this point!”… and therefore they are correct in their criticism, and have proven my words to be “false”. There are an infinity of ways to be wrong, and I’m not even sure if there is even so much as one way to be correct.

        Anyway, make no mistake: Lemmy is not immune to this, we are right there along with all of the other platforms - we (collectively at least) don’t want to hear the truth. You and I might, and like 10 other people too, but collectively, out of the tens of thousands on this platform, “we”, overall, do not. Instead, we spit upon it, and repeat our talking points, and exist inside of our echo chambers, parroting things we’ve heard others say. I know this to be true bc it’s human nature, and bc we are humans - there is no shame in it, in a sense, bc it’s simply true.

        Though occasionally I would hope for better. And it is better, slightly, as in better than Reddit, even if not perfect overall (which again, nothing is).

        As for leaving the USA, look around: the entire fucking world is moving this way. Fascism has won. The top holdout now is Germany, and they just had that enormous protest against their own far-right party rising. Russia is active again, at this point it looks like the USA will join it, and WWIII is around the corner, unless other nations simply capitulate preemptively, which at this point looks strongly as if they might. Or perhaps I’m wrong and none of this will happen. The powerful people cover their tracks well, and perhaps my overactive conspiracy-addled brain sees patterns where none exist. It’s so terribly complex that people need decades to study such matters, but the rest of us have to go to work in the morning so don’t have the time to solve the entire world’s problems. And then those who actually do, can’t manage to get the word out, bc nobody is listening. Except us crazy folks, who don’t know what to actually do about any of it. Probably bc there is nothing to be done. In part bc we’d have to start by acknowledging that our enemies have some intelligence or at least strategic thinking ability of their own, and to say something like that about the likes of Huffman (of Reddit), Musk, or Trump, receives tens of downvotes, hence makes us pause to speak, or if & whenever we do, profoundly limits the reach of the audience. Study history, if you want to be more depressed than you already are, like Machiavelli - it’s very sad (to me) but also true, it would seem.

        • fxomt
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          8 hours ago

          As for leaving the USA, look around: the entire fucking world is moving this way. Fascism has won

          Man, all of the world has been living casually this way for a century. It’s the western world that is catching up. I feel indifferent to this… at most, disappointment. I was planning to apply for asylum in an EU country but if what you’re saying about the EU is really happening (i only know of germany and the AfD), we’ll too bad, i guess.

          I guess i’ve just gotten so used to living under it that i’m not even shocked or angry anymore. This is life for me. Everytime i think of it, i tear up a little, thinking where i went wrong, wishing i was born in the west and being angry that they got to live great lives while the rest of us have to live in filth… But what will that do? Nothing.

          I’ve been depressed for basically my whole life, a lot of it not knowing why. But I always felt more anxious, but calmer outside my own country. I tense up less and now i see why, but the solution is near impossible.

          I guess what i’m saying is, count your blessings? And i’m not saying that in a way like “be grateful” or in a rude tone, i’m saying that as in, fight for what you have; because you will lose it all if you don’t.

          I’m a cynical person. As i said, i’m used to it so i feel mainly indifferent to this (as insensitive as that may sound, sorry)

          This too, shall pass. It may be lost, it may last decades retaking it. But it’s not forever, nothing is. Even in my despair i know the house of Saud will fall, be it may even take a century.

          • OpenStars
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            25 hours ago

            Oops, hit send way too early. Yeah life is not fair, and if it helps, the citizens of the USA are much more likely to die in nuclear fire and radiation than a nation that has already stabilized into an authoritian regime.

            It’s worth being angry if that helps consider the various possibilities, but also there are small joys to be found in life that anger often destroys, so it helps to try to set it aside even if only for an hour or two each day if at all possible, so as to allow room for life itself to breathe in those spaces.

            As you said. Bc being in your country keeps you always “on edge” (another way to phrase that is keeping you “sharp”). The decadence of the West was always going to be a temporary thing, and many of us are going to be shocked, Shocked I say, SHOCKED to find out that the real world does not function as we hoped. But we should not have been so shocked, or really shocked at all. It’s just another kind of sickness - a different form than what your country has but similar in causing stress in life.

            My thing is: in order to cure a disease you have to first understand it. I don’t, personally. And then second you have to know where you want to head towards. And again I don’t know that either. Maybe I could recognize a good plan if I heard one told, but even there, I am so cynical that I don’t even trust my own self there, based on past experiences. So… I wait to see what happens.

            • fxomt
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              4 hours ago

              Yeah, I do feel mad sometimes (sorry lmao, but i cant control it), but I also feel guilty for it too lol. I’ve been trying to sympathize more with people who aren’t used to living like this.

              But I wish you americans the best. Including the Europeans. GL, and stay safe.

              • OpenStars
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                121 minutes ago

                Why feel guilt? Whether we were created by a God or by nature, we were built this way, and you did not choose to build yourself:-). Instead, I see that you are honest about your feelings, which is more than I can say for a good fraction of the people that I have ever met.

                We here are learning: there’s a LOT that we can no longer control, a good bit of which we used to if not be able to then at least we lied to ourselves that we could try to influence things by our votes. Long ago that used to be true, somewhere in the past few decades it changed and now we finally have the opportunity to be honest with ourselves. A chance which we are refusing to do btw.:-)

                We will toughen up. Or die. Probably a bit of both.:-)

          • OpenStars
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            26 hours ago

            Well, tbf the EU does seem the singular holdout. Which helps explain why the UK was targeted for Brexit, and the USA by Faux News for takeover by its own internal right-wingers, and now the rest of the EU might have to stand up to Russia + USA (& maybe Xi will manage to charm Trump to extend that alliance still further?), at which point how could it hold out for long? Though it still would remain as it is for a few more years yet (even possibly measured in decades?), so for you personally that idea might still hold merit. And, possibly none of my worst fears here may come to pass, America (and the UK) could “wake up” and resist fascism after all? I doubt it, bc the way technology is changing makes it favorable for a tech bro to gain authoritarian control - globalization and automation and especially corporatization have all radically altered the landscape compared to the 60s and 70s when democracies were more favorable.