I have problems with people who abstained. The hard thing is, how do you change voter behavior?

  • @ChonkyOwlbear
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    14 days ago

    So you don’t think her voice had any power?

    Can you think of a time a VP came out and directly contradicted their President’s foreign policy?

    And it’s not “counterfactual” to say that the deals she was making was for pausing the genocide as opposed to stopping.

    Yes, that is counterfactual. Stopping the war was always the ultimate goal. Pauses were just the compromise.

    • @[email protected]
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      13 days ago

      Can you think of a time a VP came out and directly contradicted their President’s foreign policy?

      Is that a good thing? Is that acceptable even when it includes standing by genocide? But when she’s running her own campaign seems an excellent time to distinguish herself from her predecessor. Especially when she got that spot because polling showed Biden couldn’t win. Even more when she’s specifically asked what she’d have done differently per my source from earlier.

      Yes, that is counterfactual. Stopping the war was always the ultimate goal. Pauses were just the compromise.

      1. The war will not stop as long as both exist. The past 75 years of conflict have shown that. The goal as stated was only ever going to end with pauses.

      2. That’s still compromising with and defending the genociders. This evergreen meme

      Also this quote feels relevant

      • @ChonkyOwlbear
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        13 days ago

        Is that a good thing?

        It just is. It’s an unspoken restriction of her job. Nobody gets elevated to that position unless they unequivocally back their boss.

        The war will not stop as long as both exist.

        So you’re in favor of genocide, but just mad at which side is losing.

        • @[email protected]
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          12 days ago

          It just is. It’s an unspoken restriction of her job. Nobody gets elevated to that position unless they unequivocally back their boss.

          To repeat a question, is that acceptable even when it includes standing by genocide?

          So you’re in favor of genocide, but just mad at which side is losing.

          I’m in favor of dismantling all theocratic colonialist states. I’m opposed all genocide of any people, especially when that is based on religion or bigotry. To be clear, the state is not the people it supposes to represent.

          • @ChonkyOwlbear
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            12 days ago

            To repeat a question, is that acceptable even when it includes standing by genocide?

            Except she was working for peace to end the genocide. You keep skipping over that reality as if it were meaningless.

            I’m in favor of dismantling all theocratic colonialist states. I’m opposed all genocide of any people, especially when that is based on religion or bigotry. To be clear, the state is not the people it supposes to represent.

            How do you realistically propose to dismantle Israel in a way which wouldn’t qualify as genocide?

            • @[email protected]
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              12 days ago

              Except she was working for peace to end the genocide. You keep skipping over that reality as if it were meaningless.

              I’m not skipping over the deals she was making. I’m just not relying on it as the singularly decisive factor in determining her contribution to the conflict. As well as highlighting the context in which it was done.

              How do you realistically propose to dismantle Israel in a way which wouldn’t qualify as genocide?

              the state is not the people it supposes to represent.

              How did we dismantle the nazi state in a way that didn’t qualify as genocide?

              • @ChonkyOwlbear
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                12 days ago

                I’m just not relying on it as the singularly decisive factor in determining her contribution to the conflict

                Working for peace is the exact opposite of contributing to the conflict.

                How did we dismantle the nazi state in a way that didn’t qualify as genocide?

                Killing 4.4 to 5.3 million Nazis was part of that achievement. It was not achieved peacefully. Thankfully “Nazi” isn’t an ethnicity, but Israeli Jews are and ethnic group.

                • @[email protected]
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                  11 day ago

                  Working for peace is the exact opposite of contributing to the conflict.

                  I was actually trying to use a neutral phrase. Meaning that it would be possible to have a positive contribution to resolving the conflict. As I think I’ve made clear, I don’t believe it was positive overall because of a few factors I’ve tried to lay out. Can you say that you aren’t skipping over factors I’ve presented to come to your conclusion?

                  Killing 4.4 to 5.3 million Nazis was part of that achievement. It was not achieved peacefully. Thankfully “Nazi” isn’t an ethnicity, but Israeli Jews are and ethnic group.

                  That was the war that got us to the place where we were able to make demands of the state and hold them accountable for their actions. At the moment, it doesn’t seem like war is required to give the US that kind of sway over the state of Israel.

                  • @ChonkyOwlbear
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                    116 hours ago

                    Can you say that you aren’t skipping over factors I’ve presented to come to your conclusion?

                    They are irrelevant. You don’t try to stop something you support.

                    it doesn’t seem like war is required to give the US that kind of sway over the state of Israel.

                    Do you expect that Netanyahu would step down from power if we asked?