I read that as “It’s a fate worse than death for those kids whose parents think it’s a fate worse than death.”
Essentially that being misinformed about how “bad” being on the spectrum is makes their kids’ lives actively worse due to how they treat or deal with their kids. Instead of adopting an approach that regards their kids as people with different brain processes they stick to old fashioned ideas of treating them like misbehaving problem children. This makes the kids’ lives harder, which in turn makes the parents worse. I’d guess this is where the autism vaccine “community” gets their “special attitudes” from, just frustrated people hitting their heads against the wall repeatedly and becoming more dogmatic (and shitty about spectrumy things, by what must be complete coincidence).
I’m from a part of the world where the average person is still very misinformed about this type of thing. It’s pretty common for kids who are far enough on the spectrum to essentially be treated as shut-ins. It’s getting better but it’s still quite bad.
Well then you read it wrong. These are parents who have no problem letting their child die from measles because the alternative is they have autism, which the parents think is worse.
And I’m not sure why you’re not aware of that antivaxxer stance.
I think it’s just regional. The average anti vaccine person here is specifically concerned about the HPV vaccine causing ovary (?) issues (cancer?), as well as the COVID vaccine bullshit that’s popular all over the world.
Links between autism and (MMR?) vaccines are not a relevant connection at all here. Also all schools require measles vaccination (as well as a whole bunch of others I definitely wouldn’t know off the top of my head) so it’s not particularly controversial.
Just the HPV one, just for girls, and then COVID brainrot for everyone else. Our Palestinian cousins just a border (and a half) away used to get “vaccines” that were just chemical sterilization, so we’re primed to assume the worst. And that kind of thinking is very hard to tackle, but it is a different social contagion than what you’re describing. There’s much more “The West/Jews/Christians/Muslims/Chinese/Americans/French/Rothchilds/Trump/Democrats/Media want to make our little boys into infertile burgeoning transes” thinking here. Totally normal and functional country, just like the one you’re from :D
I don’t know where “here” is, but Wakefield sure did damage in a lot of the Western world. And if you are aware that it is a relevant connection in other parts of the world, I’m not sure why you thought I was talking about specifically where you live.
It feels like you’re just trying to excuse parents who would rather let their child die from something they could have vaccinated them for rather than have an autistic child. If they just can’t bare raising an autistic child, put them up for adoption. Even foster care is better than dying from measles. I think you need to read what that’s like.
I don’t disagree with any of the opinions you’ve taken the time to write out. I just think you’re taking the phrase “fate worse than death” a little too literally. @[email protected] is understandably humanizing the “bad” parents a little, because they’re in a hard position and aren’t equipped to handle it (whether they should know better or not). And the Lemmy demographic (like the Reddit one we both come from) tends to look at anti-vax people as less than human. Most of them aren’t quite as far gone as the people we see in this sub. I feel like “mildly”-convinced anti-vax parents, upon (understandably) getting treated like complete shit (which I agree is what they’re behaving like), are primed to double down and triple down. I’m not sure that helps them come around.
My point was that the anti-vax social contagion is different in different places. There are echoes of Wakefield in the problem all over the world, but it’s not a one-size-fits-all fix for a singular issue. I’m trying to add something to the conversation that I think makes a more fleshed out discussion. Our anti-vax problem is different than yours in a few ways. That’s important, I think.
You really think a comment ending with “Sorry I work with a lot of autistic kids and they’re so sweet and don’t deserve bad parents 😭” is also literally saying these kids are better off dead than with said bad parents? I don’t think you do. For what it’s worth, I’ve also worked with autistic kids. I think they’re precious kids just like any other. I certainly think they’re better off alive.
If I may, Squid, I’ve seen you all over Lemmy since I joined when the API popped, and I think you might just be the most prolific early adopter of the Lemmyverse. I’ve probably upvoted a hundred of comments and posts you’ve made (and probably downvoted a handful). But I’ll occasionally find you buried in a comment thread like this, stuck in a back and forth over absolutely nothing with someone that isn’t even directly disagreeing with you. Reading too much into a common expression is a waste of both our time, wouldn’t you think? I’m off Reddit and social media in general specifically to get away from that kind of thing, man. I don’t mean to be patronizing but come on we both know there was nothing sinister to push back against here, besides the most mild of mildly abrasive language.
See, the problem here is that they don’t say that it is a fate worse than death, they act like it is a fate worse than death because they say they don’t vaccinate their children since vaccination causes autism.
It doesn’t matter what they say. It matters that they would rather have their child die from measles and be autistic.
I really should not have to keep explaining such a simple concept here.
I read that as “It’s a fate worse than death for those kids whose parents think it’s a fate worse than death.”
Essentially that being misinformed about how “bad” being on the spectrum is makes their kids’ lives actively worse due to how they treat or deal with their kids. Instead of adopting an approach that regards their kids as people with different brain processes they stick to old fashioned ideas of treating them like misbehaving problem children. This makes the kids’ lives harder, which in turn makes the parents worse. I’d guess this is where the autism vaccine “community” gets their “special attitudes” from, just frustrated people hitting their heads against the wall repeatedly and becoming more dogmatic (and shitty about spectrumy things, by what must be complete coincidence).
I’m from a part of the world where the average person is still very misinformed about this type of thing. It’s pretty common for kids who are far enough on the spectrum to essentially be treated as shut-ins. It’s getting better but it’s still quite bad.
Well then you read it wrong. These are parents who have no problem letting their child die from measles because the alternative is they have autism, which the parents think is worse.
And I’m not sure why you’re not aware of that antivaxxer stance.
I think it’s just regional. The average anti vaccine person here is specifically concerned about the HPV vaccine causing ovary (?) issues (cancer?), as well as the COVID vaccine bullshit that’s popular all over the world.
Links between autism and (MMR?) vaccines are not a relevant connection at all here. Also all schools require measles vaccination (as well as a whole bunch of others I definitely wouldn’t know off the top of my head) so it’s not particularly controversial.
Just the HPV one, just for girls, and then COVID brainrot for everyone else. Our Palestinian cousins just a border (and a half) away used to get “vaccines” that were just chemical sterilization, so we’re primed to assume the worst. And that kind of thinking is very hard to tackle, but it is a different social contagion than what you’re describing. There’s much more “The West/Jews/Christians/Muslims/Chinese/Americans/French/Rothchilds/Trump/Democrats/Media want to make our little boys into infertile burgeoning transes” thinking here. Totally normal and functional country, just like the one you’re from :D
I don’t know where “here” is, but Wakefield sure did damage in a lot of the Western world. And if you are aware that it is a relevant connection in other parts of the world, I’m not sure why you thought I was talking about specifically where you live.
It feels like you’re just trying to excuse parents who would rather let their child die from something they could have vaccinated them for rather than have an autistic child. If they just can’t bare raising an autistic child, put them up for adoption. Even foster care is better than dying from measles. I think you need to read what that’s like.
I don’t disagree with any of the opinions you’ve taken the time to write out. I just think you’re taking the phrase “fate worse than death” a little too literally. @[email protected] is understandably humanizing the “bad” parents a little, because they’re in a hard position and aren’t equipped to handle it (whether they should know better or not). And the Lemmy demographic (like the Reddit one we both come from) tends to look at anti-vax people as less than human. Most of them aren’t quite as far gone as the people we see in this sub. I feel like “mildly”-convinced anti-vax parents, upon (understandably) getting treated like complete shit (which I agree is what they’re behaving like), are primed to double down and triple down. I’m not sure that helps them come around.
My point was that the anti-vax social contagion is different in different places. There are echoes of Wakefield in the problem all over the world, but it’s not a one-size-fits-all fix for a singular issue. I’m trying to add something to the conversation that I think makes a more fleshed out discussion. Our anti-vax problem is different than yours in a few ways. That’s important, I think.
You really think a comment ending with “Sorry I work with a lot of autistic kids and they’re so sweet and don’t deserve bad parents 😭” is also literally saying these kids are better off dead than with said bad parents? I don’t think you do. For what it’s worth, I’ve also worked with autistic kids. I think they’re precious kids just like any other. I certainly think they’re better off alive.
If I may, Squid, I’ve seen you all over Lemmy since I joined when the API popped, and I think you might just be the most prolific early adopter of the Lemmyverse. I’ve probably upvoted a hundred of comments and posts you’ve made (and probably downvoted a handful). But I’ll occasionally find you buried in a comment thread like this, stuck in a back and forth over absolutely nothing with someone that isn’t even directly disagreeing with you. Reading too much into a common expression is a waste of both our time, wouldn’t you think? I’m off Reddit and social media in general specifically to get away from that kind of thing, man. I don’t mean to be patronizing but come on we both know there was nothing sinister to push back against here, besides the most mild of mildly abrasive language.
See, the problem here is that they don’t say that it is a fate worse than death, they act like it is a fate worse than death because they say they don’t vaccinate their children since vaccination causes autism.
It doesn’t matter what they say. It matters that they would rather have their child die from measles and be autistic.
I really should not have to keep explaining such a simple concept here.