The “nuanced view of the geopolitics and history around the war in Ukraine” is usually a lot of mental gymnastics for the sole purpose of defending Russia.
lemmy.ml has a huge pro-Russia bias, for example, my recent comment accusing Russia of being a Nazi country was removed for being “bigoted”, another recent comment accusing Israel of being a Nazi country using identical phrasing remained untouched.
You can’t have it both ways, saying you don’t support Russia while putting in lots of effort to support Russia.
Again, it’s not my experience that such analysis boils down to defending Russia. You don’t have to agree with an argument to understand it, and you need to understand it if you don’t want to misrepresent it.
I don’t see it laying all the blame outside of Russia, but I do see a lot of “the other side” ignoring the role “of the US, NATO, and Ukraine.”
For the record: I do believe Ukraine has the right to defend itself from invasion. I also think this entire war could have been avoided. Russia largely seemed content with the status quo of having a friendly government in power. The US was heavily involved in overthrowing that government. Russia rather predictably took this as a serious provocation. Again, not a value judgment, just a factual accounting.
I also don’t think this situation has a good analog either in Iraq (maybe “Desert Storm”) or Palestine.
If Putin came in as a liberator, sure. Instead it became a convenient excuse for the subjugation of Ukrainian people, demoralizing them and terrorizing them with war crimes, so he can annex their land and strip them of natural resources.
The US was heavily involved in overthrowing that government.
Slight reference here to a prominent Russian theory that Ukraine is under US deep state government control. Which is this was true, the US wouldn’t looking to switch sides to Russia. And Ukraine wouldn’t be so set on continuing to defend itself even if the US switches.
That’s why I’m saying, pro-Russia leftists are going to mentally crumble if the US switches over, because their entire world view (the one they like to call their “nuanced geopolitical view”) has been ripped apart.
I genuinely believe that a Harris administration would also be looking for an exit at this point. The US has failed to meet most (any?) of its objectives with this proxy war, and is finally admitting it. This is a bitter pill indeed for many people in Ukraine and abroad. The fact is that nothing will turn the tide/retake territory, barring US/NATO intervention. I cannot see that happening no matter who sits in the oval office. Trump is a brash asshole about it, just like everything else, but I think the results will be the same.
The advantage of a Harris administration is that the US would continue to be unfriendly to Russia, so pro-Russia leftists could continue to believe that Ukraine was just a vassal ruled by US deep state plants, and not have to face the world-shattering reality of a US-Russia alliance against Ukraine.
I think you are grinding your axe too sharply. The US never has anyone’s best interest in mind, under any administration. Official US support for Ukraine has never been about freedom, democracy, etc. With that in mind, has the US truly been a friend to the Ukrainian people? They have persisted in prolonging and funding the war well past the point where the prospect of victory had disappeared, at great cost of Ukrainian lives.
Trump is not going to “ally” with Russia. If you call negotiating a peace deal that reflects the relative strength of the Russian position an “alliance” I will have to disagree with you. The worst part of what Trump is doing is extorting Ukraine for the privilege of having suffered for US strategic aims.
Ukraine was not involved in the peace deal, it was Russia and the US alone behind closed doors.
That’s not a normal peace deal.
And now Israel is voting in the UN in favor of Russia.
The US, Israel, and Russia are similar countries with similar leaders, similar goals, similar methods. Unless we actually see one of the three experience an internal revolution, an alliance is inevitable.
The “nuanced view of the geopolitics and history around the war in Ukraine” is usually a lot of mental gymnastics for the sole purpose of defending Russia.
lemmy.ml has a huge pro-Russia bias, for example, my recent comment accusing Russia of being a Nazi country was removed for being “bigoted”, another recent comment accusing Israel of being a Nazi country using identical phrasing remained untouched.
You can’t have it both ways, saying you don’t support Russia while putting in lots of effort to support Russia.
Again, it’s not my experience that such analysis boils down to defending Russia. You don’t have to agree with an argument to understand it, and you need to understand it if you don’t want to misrepresent it.
I do understand the argument, and it lays all accountability for Russia’s invasion at the feet of the US, NATO, and Ukraine.
It’s the equivalent of blaming Iraq for the US invasion, or blaming Hamas for Israel destroying Gaza. Make sense?
I don’t see it laying all the blame outside of Russia, but I do see a lot of “the other side” ignoring the role “of the US, NATO, and Ukraine.”
For the record: I do believe Ukraine has the right to defend itself from invasion. I also think this entire war could have been avoided. Russia largely seemed content with the status quo of having a friendly government in power. The US was heavily involved in overthrowing that government. Russia rather predictably took this as a serious provocation. Again, not a value judgment, just a factual accounting.
I also don’t think this situation has a good analog either in Iraq (maybe “Desert Storm”) or Palestine.
If Putin came in as a liberator, sure. Instead it became a convenient excuse for the subjugation of Ukrainian people, demoralizing them and terrorizing them with war crimes, so he can annex their land and strip them of natural resources.
Slight reference here to a prominent Russian theory that Ukraine is under US deep state government control. Which is this was true, the US wouldn’t looking to switch sides to Russia. And Ukraine wouldn’t be so set on continuing to defend itself even if the US switches.
That’s why I’m saying, pro-Russia leftists are going to mentally crumble if the US switches over, because their entire world view (the one they like to call their “nuanced geopolitical view”) has been ripped apart.
I genuinely believe that a Harris administration would also be looking for an exit at this point. The US has failed to meet most (any?) of its objectives with this proxy war, and is finally admitting it. This is a bitter pill indeed for many people in Ukraine and abroad. The fact is that nothing will turn the tide/retake territory, barring US/NATO intervention. I cannot see that happening no matter who sits in the oval office. Trump is a brash asshole about it, just like everything else, but I think the results will be the same.
I can’t argue against anything you said there.
The advantage of a Harris administration is that the US would continue to be unfriendly to Russia, so pro-Russia leftists could continue to believe that Ukraine was just a vassal ruled by US deep state plants, and not have to face the world-shattering reality of a US-Russia alliance against Ukraine.
I think you are grinding your axe too sharply. The US never has anyone’s best interest in mind, under any administration. Official US support for Ukraine has never been about freedom, democracy, etc. With that in mind, has the US truly been a friend to the Ukrainian people? They have persisted in prolonging and funding the war well past the point where the prospect of victory had disappeared, at great cost of Ukrainian lives.
Trump is not going to “ally” with Russia. If you call negotiating a peace deal that reflects the relative strength of the Russian position an “alliance” I will have to disagree with you. The worst part of what Trump is doing is extorting Ukraine for the privilege of having suffered for US strategic aims.
“Negotiating a peace deal”
Ukraine was not involved in the peace deal, it was Russia and the US alone behind closed doors.
That’s not a normal peace deal.
And now Israel is voting in the UN in favor of Russia.
The US, Israel, and Russia are similar countries with similar leaders, similar goals, similar methods. Unless we actually see one of the three experience an internal revolution, an alliance is inevitable.