I can’t comprehend it any more than I can being trans, but why not give them basic respect for how they feel, regardless of what you think about it?
Is someone getting physically hurt by using neopronouns or by being respectful toward their feelings?
Are you being hurtful by saying they are cosplaying, in the same way that it would be hurtful to someone who is trans?
Thats kind of the line there dude. Your opinion on their lived experience is irrelevant, regardless of what I may think of it or you may think of it. Maybe they are a troll, maybe not.
Does it really harm you to not be demeaning towards others about it though?
I can’t comprehend it any more than I can being trans, but why not give them basic respect for how they feel, regardless of what you think about it?
I can comprehend being trans. If I think about myself in a female body, trapped indefinitely, I feel horrified - like I would be alien in my own skin. That horror I feel is only abstract, and nothing compared to what trans people experience, but the principle is clear.
Is someone getting physically hurt by using neopronouns or by being respectful toward their feelings?
Again. At no point are neopronouns involved in this dispute.
Are you being hurtful by saying they are cosplaying, in the same way that it would be hurtful to someone who is trans?
Is it not hurtful to trans folk to equate their identities to someone who wants to play at being a dragon? Or more precisely, a dragonfucker?
Thats kind of the line there dude. Your opinion on their lived experience is irrelevant, regardless of what I may think of it or you may think of it. Maybe they are a troll, maybe not.
Does it really harm you to not be demeaning towards others about it though?
That they can’t feel like they are on the inside. Yes.
I can comprehend being trans. If I think about myself in a female body, trapped indefinitely, I feel horrified - like I would be alien in my own skin. That horror I feel is only abstract, and nothing compared to what trans people experience, but the principle is clear.
Principle, but not full comprehension. You logically understand the concepts. You dont fully comprehend it, and neither do I.
Just because I understand more relative to trans folks than I would for others that feel more unique doesn’t mean I can’t extend them the same basic respect and dignity though. If that’s how they feel, thats how they feel.
Again. At no point are neopronouns involved in this dispute.
Other than derogatory comments around them, like “cosplaying” as noted above. Yes.
Is it not hurtful to trans folk to equate their identities to someone who wants to play at being a dragon? Or more precisely, a dragonfucker?
Ah, so you speak for all trans folks then? Despite not being trans? Your basic understanding of the principles of being trans gives you the keen knowledge and insight to decide how all trans folks should feel relative about what someone else thinks of themselves on the inside?
Right. Cmon man. Youre better than this.
Having opinions is demeaning?
Like most other things in life - it depends on the presentation.
And yeah, I’d say even in this comment chain you’ve been pretty damn demeaning. Obviously my opinion, and to be clear I don’t think you are at all a bad person.
But this, overall - yeah man you’ve got a really shitty take on this one. Its worth you spending time thinking about rather than reacting more, IMO.
That they can’t feel like they are on the inside. Yes.
Okay? There are people who feel like they have bugs on the inside. That neither means that they have bugs on the inside, nor does it mean that treating having bugs on the inside as the same as gender identity is in any way, shape, or form valid.
Principle, but not full comprehension. You logically understand the concepts. You dont fully comprehend it, and neither do I.
At that point, you can’t ‘truly’ comprehend anything, so there should be no judgement or distinctions made regarding other people.
Ah, so you speak for all trans folks then? Despite not being trans? Your basic understanding of the principles of being trans gives you the keen knowledge and insight to decide how all trans folks should feel relative about what someone else thinks of themselves on the inside?
No? I asked you a question.
If you can’t answer the question, how can you proffer a negative answer to it?
But this, overall - yeah man you’ve got a really shitty take on this one. Its worth you spending time thinking about rather than reacting more, IMO.
Fuck, man, I’ve thought and argued about this for years. I thought we left this behind in the early 2010s when Tumblr was doing turtlegender and babygender. “You haven’t spent enough time thinking about gender” is bullshit, unless my entire adult life isn’t long enough. I’ve put in time, thought, and the reading to understand trans and NB issues on at least a basic level so that I could fully support them in the political arena. When someone comes at me about perverts ‘deciding’ to change genders, I have a wealth of knowledge and constructed arguments to draw on. I’m not throwing this out there from some airy, just-learned-about-NB-identities position.
I’m just going to skip ahead, because the earlier parts I feel like are just a rehash of the part you’re skipping over.
“You haven’t spent enough time thinking about gender”
Not what I said.
I said you should think about your attitude around it. You should think about why you feel you need to be derogatory about it.
Its a pointless thing to be mean about. If its how someone feels, its how someone feels. If its someone being a troll, just being generally polite and considerate and not needing to shove your opinion on them or others is not going to feed troll behavior.
What I’m suggesting you reflect on is why you’re being demeaning about it, rather than just acknowledging and moving on.
Because it trivializes an issue I believe is serious?
They may consider it serious too.
So you’re trivializing others based on your perception that its trivializing. Seems kind of a shitty thing to do.
Because it’s resulted in an instance regarding any disagreement with the idea as ban-worthy thoughtcrime?
Its kind of been the rule forever there, basically the basis the entire instance was founded on. So… Yeah. Why is that a surprise?
Okay? I feel that dragons aren’t a gender. I didn’t go and shove this in Drag’s face, nor, for that matter, in Ada’s face.
I haven’t commented on anything related to the mod/admin actions until just above, if you notice. Just comments in this thread. Do I think it was overstepping? Yes.
Do I also think you’re being kind of a dick? Also yes.
Why are my feelings on this invalid?
You’re basically outright saying that people couldn’t possibly exist who feel different on the inside. Its just a different sense of self for them, which neither you - nor I for that matter - understand.
Your opinion and mine don’t mean jack shit. Just like individual opinions about someone’s ability to be transgendered don’t mean jack shit. There is science behind being transgender - and its been set back already by decades (and likely centuries) due to conservative shitheads. If they hadn’t, maybe there would be more scientific exploration of this aspect. I have no idea.
But what I do know is, unless its scientifically proven this can’t be, or its still a possibility.
Some people consider race-mixing serious, that doesn’t mean that I have to treat their considerations with equal respect.
Its kind of been the rule forever there, basically the basis the entire instance was founded on. So… Yeah. Why is that a surprise?
Didn’t realize the basis of the instance was that dragons were real.
I haven’t commented on anything related to the mod/admin actions until just above, if you notice. Just comments in this thread. Do I think it was overstepping? Yes.
But you said:
Its a pointless thing to be mean about. If its how someone feels, its how someone feels.
But I was only ‘mean about it’ in the context of being accused of being a transphobe for having the opinion. I was not part of the conversation 'til then. I was not the one who brought up the issue. I didn’t come out of nowhere to attack someone for saying they’re a dragon - Drag, even, has commented numerous times on my posts without me getting into a fight with them about it. I was accused of being transphobic, I defended myself from the accusation by pointing out my rationale, and I get tone-policed for bitching on that after an admin comes from another instance and bans me? Fucking really?
You’re basically outright saying that people couldn’t possibly exist who feel different on the inside. Its just a different sense of self for them, which you - nor I for that matter - understand.
At no point have I commented along the lines of ‘feeling different on the inside’ being invalid. The question is whether ‘feeling different’ is gender. Should I regard my gender as ‘gassy’ after a trip to Taco Bell?
Your opinion and mine don’t mean jack shit. Just like individual opinions about someone’s ability to be transgendered don’t mean jack shit. There is science behind being transgender - and its been set back already by decades (and likely centuries) due to conservative shitheads. If they hadn’t, maybe there would be more scientific exploration of this aspect. I have no idea.
But what I do know is, unless its scientifically proven this can’t be, or its still a possibility.
My opinion on it is meaningless.
… bruh, how much scientific literature on trans issues have you actually read.
But I was only ‘mean about it’ in the context of being accused of being a transphobe for having the opinion
… Again, right in this comment chain. Thats what I was talking about. At no point prior to my last comment - where I explicitly said I feel it was overstepping - did I day anything about what happened other than in this thread.
I’m going to skip the other parts that are, again, going to just make me repeat things ive previously said.
… bruh, how much scientific literature on trans issues have you actually read.
A decent bit, actually. I tend to read scientific papers and white papers, one of my friends and former coworkers was transitioning, I had questions, she sent me a ton of info (knowing I’d find it helpful). Because she’s an awesome friend and knows me and how I process stuff.
… OK now youre being a dick for no reason too.
I can’t comprehend it any more than I can being trans, but why not give them basic respect for how they feel, regardless of what you think about it?
Is someone getting physically hurt by using neopronouns or by being respectful toward their feelings?
Are you being hurtful by saying they are cosplaying, in the same way that it would be hurtful to someone who is trans?
Thats kind of the line there dude. Your opinion on their lived experience is irrelevant, regardless of what I may think of it or you may think of it. Maybe they are a troll, maybe not.
Does it really harm you to not be demeaning towards others about it though?
… for asserting people can’t be dragons?
I can comprehend being trans. If I think about myself in a female body, trapped indefinitely, I feel horrified - like I would be alien in my own skin. That horror I feel is only abstract, and nothing compared to what trans people experience, but the principle is clear.
Again. At no point are neopronouns involved in this dispute.
Is it not hurtful to trans folk to equate their identities to someone who wants to play at being a dragon? Or more precisely, a dragonfucker?
Having opinions is demeaning?
That they can’t feel like they are on the inside. Yes.
Principle, but not full comprehension. You logically understand the concepts. You dont fully comprehend it, and neither do I.
Just because I understand more relative to trans folks than I would for others that feel more unique doesn’t mean I can’t extend them the same basic respect and dignity though. If that’s how they feel, thats how they feel.
Other than derogatory comments around them, like “cosplaying” as noted above. Yes.
Ah, so you speak for all trans folks then? Despite not being trans? Your basic understanding of the principles of being trans gives you the keen knowledge and insight to decide how all trans folks should feel relative about what someone else thinks of themselves on the inside?
Right. Cmon man. Youre better than this.
Like most other things in life - it depends on the presentation.
And yeah, I’d say even in this comment chain you’ve been pretty damn demeaning. Obviously my opinion, and to be clear I don’t think you are at all a bad person.
But this, overall - yeah man you’ve got a really shitty take on this one. Its worth you spending time thinking about rather than reacting more, IMO.
Okay? There are people who feel like they have bugs on the inside. That neither means that they have bugs on the inside, nor does it mean that treating having bugs on the inside as the same as gender identity is in any way, shape, or form valid.
At that point, you can’t ‘truly’ comprehend anything, so there should be no judgement or distinctions made regarding other people.
No? I asked you a question.
If you can’t answer the question, how can you proffer a negative answer to it?
Fuck, man, I’ve thought and argued about this for years. I thought we left this behind in the early 2010s when Tumblr was doing turtlegender and babygender. “You haven’t spent enough time thinking about gender” is bullshit, unless my entire adult life isn’t long enough. I’ve put in time, thought, and the reading to understand trans and NB issues on at least a basic level so that I could fully support them in the political arena. When someone comes at me about perverts ‘deciding’ to change genders, I have a wealth of knowledge and constructed arguments to draw on. I’m not throwing this out there from some airy, just-learned-about-NB-identities position.
I’m just going to skip ahead, because the earlier parts I feel like are just a rehash of the part you’re skipping over.
Not what I said.
I said you should think about your attitude around it. You should think about why you feel you need to be derogatory about it.
Its a pointless thing to be mean about. If its how someone feels, its how someone feels. If its someone being a troll, just being generally polite and considerate and not needing to shove your opinion on them or others is not going to feed troll behavior.
What I’m suggesting you reflect on is why you’re being demeaning about it, rather than just acknowledging and moving on.
Because it trivializes an issue I believe is serious?
Because it’s resulted in an instance regarding any disagreement with the idea as ban-worthy thoughtcrime?
Because when I get called a transphobe for not believing in dragons, it gets my dander up?
Okay? I feel that dragons aren’t a gender. I didn’t go and shove this in Drag’s face, nor, for that matter, in Ada’s face.
Why are my feelings on this invalid?
Shoot.
They may consider it serious too.
So you’re trivializing others based on your perception that its trivializing. Seems kind of a shitty thing to do.
Its kind of been the rule forever there, basically the basis the entire instance was founded on. So… Yeah. Why is that a surprise?
I haven’t commented on anything related to the mod/admin actions until just above, if you notice. Just comments in this thread. Do I think it was overstepping? Yes.
Do I also think you’re being kind of a dick? Also yes.
You’re basically outright saying that people couldn’t possibly exist who feel different on the inside. Its just a different sense of self for them, which neither you - nor I for that matter - understand.
Your opinion and mine don’t mean jack shit. Just like individual opinions about someone’s ability to be transgendered don’t mean jack shit. There is science behind being transgender - and its been set back already by decades (and likely centuries) due to conservative shitheads. If they hadn’t, maybe there would be more scientific exploration of this aspect. I have no idea.
But what I do know is, unless its scientifically proven this can’t be, or its still a possibility.
My opinion on it is meaningless.
Edit: [ ] a whole word.
Some people consider race-mixing serious, that doesn’t mean that I have to treat their considerations with equal respect.
Didn’t realize the basis of the instance was that dragons were real.
But you said:
But I was only ‘mean about it’ in the context of being accused of being a transphobe for having the opinion. I was not part of the conversation 'til then. I was not the one who brought up the issue. I didn’t come out of nowhere to attack someone for saying they’re a dragon - Drag, even, has commented numerous times on my posts without me getting into a fight with them about it. I was accused of being transphobic, I defended myself from the accusation by pointing out my rationale, and I get tone-policed for bitching on that after an admin comes from another instance and bans me? Fucking really?
At no point have I commented along the lines of ‘feeling different on the inside’ being invalid. The question is whether ‘feeling different’ is gender. Should I regard my gender as ‘gassy’ after a trip to Taco Bell?
… bruh, how much scientific literature on trans issues have you actually read.
… Again, right in this comment chain. Thats what I was talking about. At no point prior to my last comment - where I explicitly said I feel it was overstepping - did I day anything about what happened other than in this thread.
I’m going to skip the other parts that are, again, going to just make me repeat things ive previously said.
A decent bit, actually. I tend to read scientific papers and white papers, one of my friends and former coworkers was transitioning, I had questions, she sent me a ton of info (knowing I’d find it helpful). Because she’s an awesome friend and knows me and how I process stuff.
Don’t assume.
I think I’m done for tonight.
💖