I’ve known some anti-Russian conservatives, but unfortunately, there is a significant portion of conservatives, mostly Trump cultists, who have effortlessly made the swap into believing that Russia is defending White Christian Civilization against the Woke Hordes.
Memes are, by their nature, reductive, so if this doesn’t apply to you, I don’t mean to assert otherwise. My own mother is a conservative, if a somewhat odd one, who does not support Russia. But there is a major current of pro-Russian sentiment and ‘neutral’ ‘just asking questions’ coursing through modern American conservatism.
@Blamemeta Trump, his administration, the NRA astonishingly - remember Maria Butina and her boyfriend, the GOP operative?, “Sherriff” Clarke, Roger Stone, the traitor Gen. Mike Flynn, Rep. Dana Rohrbacker, Formerly of Fox News Tuckyeo Rose Carlson, MGT, Matt and Mercedes Shlapp of CPAP, Devin Nunes, and I could go on and on. I grew up during the Cold War and no one hates the fucking Putinistas more than I do. The Putinistas are all conservatives, or claim to be. Reagan must be rolling in his grave.
@Lapus If you mean leading an aligned NATO from a position of strength, then I would probably agree, even though I’m not a fan of Reagan and even though Trump and is evil goblins did their best to dismantle US and NATO security, which Biden has built back with the coalition in support of Ukraine. I disagree with your second statement.
When I was answering you, I really didn’t convey my point well, actually at all.
My trust point was, based on his trickle down economics and being with the rich. I would guess in this time he would sore with roadies if that’s what it took to get his agenda across.
As your answer is thoughtful and educated, I would be privileged to learn from you.
I disagree, honestly. Reagan would’ve sided with Russia in an instant, especially if it meant getting one over on the liberals. Remember that he accused the milquetoast American left of having gone ‘so far left they left America’.
Reagan’s opposition was to communism, not to regional powers enforcing their hegemony over smaller states. Ukraine would be sacrificed in an instant. It’s doubtful that he’d have any moral opposition, considering the shitbags he was fond of supporting.
@PugJesus That was a good line, but he was a very effective communicator. In my view, Reagan wanted what happened to happen - for the Soviet Union to collapse. “Mr. Gobachev, tear down this wall!” The US fucked up a once-in-a-millenium opportunity after the collapse, but that is another topic. After Vietnam, other than in Central America - Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras which were in our sphere of influence, no American President was going to meddle in a regional conflict. Moral opposition doesn’t mean anything to anybody, but that is realpolitic. @Blamemeta@Lapus
I disagree. The SovUnion was collapsing, and the CIA knew this as far back as the 70s. Reagan no doubt wanted the Sovs to collapse, and I have no doubt he genuinely pursued that goal, but he did little to actually accelerate the process. The Sovs were rotted out from the inside.
Let’s not forget the Iran angle of the Iran-Contra scandal, or that Reagan supported apartheid SA long after his own party had turned against it. Not only that, but his meddling in Latin American countries went beyond the usual vile Cold War shenanigans, and into deeply disturbing - and arguably counterproductive - territory.
I disagree that moral opposition doesn’t mean anything - realpolitik itself is a deeply controversial idea. Obligatory fuck Kissinger.
@PugJesus In my view (and recollection) the whole point of the “star wars” project was to force the Sovs to spend themselves into collapse, which they did. That is why Reagan got credit for “winning” the Cold War. The Sovs were created on a false economic foundation - I’m referring to the forced collectivization of agriculture by Stalin as an example (not the human loss associated with it). So I think they were never whole as a point to rot from.
To be clear, I’m not a fan of Reagan and never was. He was out of control in Latin America, supported the Shah, lots of bad things. Realpolitik has been controversial for many years but I used the term as a description of how things are. And I agree - fuck Kissinger. The last thing we need is that guy negotiating on his own with his “old friend” in China.
I don’t know about every conservative, but me and every other conservative I know hates Russia.
I’ve known some anti-Russian conservatives, but unfortunately, there is a significant portion of conservatives, mostly Trump cultists, who have effortlessly made the swap into believing that Russia is defending White Christian Civilization against the Woke Hordes.
Memes are, by their nature, reductive, so if this doesn’t apply to you, I don’t mean to assert otherwise. My own mother is a conservative, if a somewhat odd one, who does not support Russia. But there is a major current of pro-Russian sentiment and ‘neutral’ ‘just asking questions’ coursing through modern American conservatism.
@Blamemeta Trump, his administration, the NRA astonishingly - remember Maria Butina and her boyfriend, the GOP operative?, “Sherriff” Clarke, Roger Stone, the traitor Gen. Mike Flynn, Rep. Dana Rohrbacker, Formerly of Fox News Tuckyeo Rose Carlson, MGT, Matt and Mercedes Shlapp of CPAP, Devin Nunes, and I could go on and on. I grew up during the Cold War and no one hates the fucking Putinistas more than I do. The Putinistas are all conservatives, or claim to be. Reagan must be rolling in his grave.
@PugJesus
The US is exactly where Reagan wanted us to be. If Russia is required to maintain that status, he would have sided with them in a second.
@Lapus If you mean leading an aligned NATO from a position of strength, then I would probably agree, even though I’m not a fan of Reagan and even though Trump and is evil goblins did their best to dismantle US and NATO security, which Biden has built back with the coalition in support of Ukraine. I disagree with your second statement.
@Blamemeta @PugJesus
When I was answering you, I really didn’t convey my point well, actually at all.
My trust point was, based on his trickle down economics and being with the rich. I would guess in this time he would sore with roadies if that’s what it took to get his agenda across.
As your answer is thoughtful and educated, I would be privileged to learn from you.
Thank you for not roasting me. I appreciate that.
@Lapus Thank you - I’m just a guy on the internet. Others in this thread agree with you, I’m not here to roast or educate anyone. Cheers, my friend.
@Blamemeta @PugJesus
I disagree, honestly. Reagan would’ve sided with Russia in an instant, especially if it meant getting one over on the liberals. Remember that he accused the milquetoast American left of having gone ‘so far left they left America’.
Reagan’s opposition was to communism, not to regional powers enforcing their hegemony over smaller states. Ukraine would be sacrificed in an instant. It’s doubtful that he’d have any moral opposition, considering the shitbags he was fond of supporting.
@PugJesus That was a good line, but he was a very effective communicator. In my view, Reagan wanted what happened to happen - for the Soviet Union to collapse. “Mr. Gobachev, tear down this wall!” The US fucked up a once-in-a-millenium opportunity after the collapse, but that is another topic. After Vietnam, other than in Central America - Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras which were in our sphere of influence, no American President was going to meddle in a regional conflict. Moral opposition doesn’t mean anything to anybody, but that is realpolitic.
@Blamemeta @Lapus
I disagree. The SovUnion was collapsing, and the CIA knew this as far back as the 70s. Reagan no doubt wanted the Sovs to collapse, and I have no doubt he genuinely pursued that goal, but he did little to actually accelerate the process. The Sovs were rotted out from the inside.
Let’s not forget the Iran angle of the Iran-Contra scandal, or that Reagan supported apartheid SA long after his own party had turned against it. Not only that, but his meddling in Latin American countries went beyond the usual vile Cold War shenanigans, and into deeply disturbing - and arguably counterproductive - territory.
I disagree that moral opposition doesn’t mean anything - realpolitik itself is a deeply controversial idea. Obligatory fuck Kissinger.
@PugJesus In my view (and recollection) the whole point of the “star wars” project was to force the Sovs to spend themselves into collapse, which they did. That is why Reagan got credit for “winning” the Cold War. The Sovs were created on a false economic foundation - I’m referring to the forced collectivization of agriculture by Stalin as an example (not the human loss associated with it). So I think they were never whole as a point to rot from.
To be clear, I’m not a fan of Reagan and never was. He was out of control in Latin America, supported the Shah, lots of bad things. Realpolitik has been controversial for many years but I used the term as a description of how things are. And I agree - fuck Kissinger. The last thing we need is that guy negotiating on his own with his “old friend” in China.
Have a good evening.
@Blamemeta @Lapus
You too, mate! Always a pleasure to have a civil discussion about history.
Out of curiosity, are you on Mastodon? Is that why you added the @Blamemeta?
@Blamemeta No, not on Mastodon. Just showed up when I replied earlier. No idea why
@PugJesus @Blamemeta