i think it’s really simple… we don’t gather in order to accomplish things together… not in the real world, solving real problems… men become friends when they solve problems and build things together… think barn building among the Amish… and we basically can only drop the competitive thing if we’re trying to work together, but then we get right to work… and that’s our normal socialization… when we see one another, we immediately like to reminisce about something we fixed or conquered together… back in my grandfather’s day, they spent free time at the men’s social club, to brag about exactly that and drink and play cards all evening… we haven’t figured out how to replace that stuff… so we’re all just adversaries all the time, learning how to get better at combat and shit…
right, games are the current substitute… many men aren’t interested in games, because there’s nothing real about them, and i don’t think it really suffices as a substitute in general…
I think part of this is a result of toxic masculinity issues. I remember reading a comment by a trans man on how his friendships had changed after he transitioned, and while part of it was how his friendships changed with women he had been friends with before he even transitioned, he also talked about how his friendships with men were missing a major part that had made his friendships with women before he transitioned so deep - and that was emotional vulnerability. Similar to what you’re saying, he found that it generally isn’t socially acceptable for men to form true, emotional connections with other men outside of scenarios that emulate life or death situations. Things like hunting, or sports that were originally created to keep soldiers fit outside of war are acceptable situations for men to build that camaraderie. Outside of these kinds of scenarios though, men aren’t allowed to be emotionally vulnerable with each other and make true friendships that go beyond a surface level, leaving them emotionally isolated and stunting their emotional growth and well-being. He also theorized that this is probably why men mistake women being friendly as them being flirtatious since women have that deep emotional connection in all their friendships, while men are only really allowed it with romantic partners, but that’s outside the scope of this conversation.
i think it’s really simple… we don’t gather in order to accomplish things together… not in the real world, solving real problems… men become friends when they solve problems and build things together… think barn building among the Amish… and we basically can only drop the competitive thing if we’re trying to work together, but then we get right to work… and that’s our normal socialization… when we see one another, we immediately like to reminisce about something we fixed or conquered together… back in my grandfather’s day, they spent free time at the men’s social club, to brag about exactly that and drink and play cards all evening… we haven’t figured out how to replace that stuff… so we’re all just adversaries all the time, learning how to get better at combat and shit…
Try finding a public boardgame night instead of a gentleman’s club - both the library and the game store have them here.
I can both attest that this works, and that it sucks when you move and there aren’t any around you anymore.
right, games are the current substitute… many men aren’t interested in games, because there’s nothing real about them, and i don’t think it really suffices as a substitute in general…
I think part of this is a result of toxic masculinity issues. I remember reading a comment by a trans man on how his friendships had changed after he transitioned, and while part of it was how his friendships changed with women he had been friends with before he even transitioned, he also talked about how his friendships with men were missing a major part that had made his friendships with women before he transitioned so deep - and that was emotional vulnerability. Similar to what you’re saying, he found that it generally isn’t socially acceptable for men to form true, emotional connections with other men outside of scenarios that emulate life or death situations. Things like hunting, or sports that were originally created to keep soldiers fit outside of war are acceptable situations for men to build that camaraderie. Outside of these kinds of scenarios though, men aren’t allowed to be emotionally vulnerable with each other and make true friendships that go beyond a surface level, leaving them emotionally isolated and stunting their emotional growth and well-being. He also theorized that this is probably why men mistake women being friendly as them being flirtatious since women have that deep emotional connection in all their friendships, while men are only really allowed it with romantic partners, but that’s outside the scope of this conversation.