“Good faith” just means being willing to hear us out. Obviously I’d like it if you would change your mind, but as long as you’re trying to understand our point of view(even if you don’t change yours) you’re still welcome here.
My point was that capitalist media of the 1800s was accusing socialism of being “authoritarian” before any socialist nations existed. How could they declare something to be “authoritarian” (or anything for that matter) before it actually existed? Does that not seem like poisoning the well?
And it seems your understanding of these nations comes solely from a western, capitalist country’s interpretation of them and their system.
Are their systems “authoritarian” or are they just “different” to the system you live in?
Maybe try and read some primary sources on how they structure their system, and listen to what they say about their own system, then weigh what they say about it with what you already know, compare and contrast, that sort of thing. If the only information you get about a nation comes directly from their biggest enemies, of course you’re going to think they’re all horrible.
Why do you think that a government will oppose a complete system change, but will allow a party change? You’re a pol-sci student, you can get this one!
If a government had two socialist parties, would that make it more democratic and less authoritarian? But if both parties had the same goals, what would even be the point of having two of them?
Would it actually be more democratic to have two parties, or would that just be a means of enabling the people to feel like things are more democratic, because they get to vote between two parties (but both parties ultimately have the same goals.)
Now imagine say…a capitalist country that does that. That has two parties, but both parties represent the capitalist class, not the people in general. Is that actually democratic? The people get to choose after all! But they only get a choice between two parties that don’t actually represent them.
What is a democracy if not a government built around the representation of the people? If the people are feeling represented by their government, does it matter how many parties their are? More parties doesn’t mean more democratic. What matters is that those parties represent the people. Even if there is just a single party, as long as the people have proper representation, it is democratic.
Buddy, you really think that was condescending? Ooh boy.
You aren’t the one calling the shots here champ. This is a Marxist Leninist instance. That means that you should try and understand the Marxist Leninist point of view before smugly telling us we’re all wrong.
I’ve given you sources, I’ve told you about trying to understand that your perspective isn’t the only one, and you call me condescending, that’s an awful big word there slugger, well done!
You clearly aren’t actually interested in learning, so please take your smug elsewhere, it isn’t welcome here. I’m not interested in a “debate” with someone who demands I be “civil” by not calling them out when they say bullshit. You’ve been trying to shove multiple different societies into simplistic labels rather than trying to understand any of them. It’s a shame you took Pol-Sci instead of Anthropology, you’d probably have a better set of tools to understand this stuff that way.
You accuse me of saying a triangle has more than three sides, but have you considered that maybe I’m talking about squares and pentagons as well as triangles? And you’re the only one here insisting every shape is triangular?
This is for the lurkers, an essay on how this sort of thinking is so prevalent in yankees:
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“Good faith” just means being willing to hear us out. Obviously I’d like it if you would change your mind, but as long as you’re trying to understand our point of view(even if you don’t change yours) you’re still welcome here.
My point was that capitalist media of the 1800s was accusing socialism of being “authoritarian” before any socialist nations existed. How could they declare something to be “authoritarian” (or anything for that matter) before it actually existed? Does that not seem like poisoning the well?
And it seems your understanding of these nations comes solely from a western, capitalist country’s interpretation of them and their system. Are their systems “authoritarian” or are they just “different” to the system you live in? Maybe try and read some primary sources on how they structure their system, and listen to what they say about their own system, then weigh what they say about it with what you already know, compare and contrast, that sort of thing. If the only information you get about a nation comes directly from their biggest enemies, of course you’re going to think they’re all horrible.
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By that definition every state would be “authoritarian”. Try overthrowing your government and see how that goes.
Are you actually listening to what you are saying? Because it really doesn’t sound like you’ve thought this definition through.
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You’re almost there!
Why do you think that a government will oppose a complete system change, but will allow a party change? You’re a pol-sci student, you can get this one!
If a government had two socialist parties, would that make it more democratic and less authoritarian? But if both parties had the same goals, what would even be the point of having two of them? Would it actually be more democratic to have two parties, or would that just be a means of enabling the people to feel like things are more democratic, because they get to vote between two parties (but both parties ultimately have the same goals.)
Now imagine say…a capitalist country that does that. That has two parties, but both parties represent the capitalist class, not the people in general. Is that actually democratic? The people get to choose after all! But they only get a choice between two parties that don’t actually represent them.
What is a democracy if not a government built around the representation of the people? If the people are feeling represented by their government, does it matter how many parties their are? More parties doesn’t mean more democratic. What matters is that those parties represent the people. Even if there is just a single party, as long as the people have proper representation, it is democratic.
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Buddy, you really think that was condescending? Ooh boy.
You aren’t the one calling the shots here champ. This is a Marxist Leninist instance. That means that you should try and understand the Marxist Leninist point of view before smugly telling us we’re all wrong.
I’ve given you sources, I’ve told you about trying to understand that your perspective isn’t the only one, and you call me condescending, that’s an awful big word there slugger, well done!
You clearly aren’t actually interested in learning, so please take your smug elsewhere, it isn’t welcome here. I’m not interested in a “debate” with someone who demands I be “civil” by not calling them out when they say bullshit. You’ve been trying to shove multiple different societies into simplistic labels rather than trying to understand any of them. It’s a shame you took Pol-Sci instead of Anthropology, you’d probably have a better set of tools to understand this stuff that way.
You accuse me of saying a triangle has more than three sides, but have you considered that maybe I’m talking about squares and pentagons as well as triangles? And you’re the only one here insisting every shape is triangular?
This is for the lurkers, an essay on how this sort of thinking is so prevalent in yankees:
https://www.qiaocollective.com/articles/american-revolution-tu-zhuxi/
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