I’ve commuted to work by bicycle maybe 2 decades out of my career of almost 3 decades, NEVER with any bicyle worth more than 200 EUR (during my time in The Netherlands I always got second hand bicycles … well, more likely 4th or 5h hand) and you clearly have no fucking clue what you’re talking about.
You’re talking about, maybe, the consumer high-end “recreative” cycling, the kind that’s sold to fad-following consumers who will at most pull out the bicycle on a weekend day, put on a “Tour de France” disguise (complete with “sponsor” sticks) and go cycle to be seen cycling.
In countries were people actually cycle for utility purposes those are a tiny fraction of people and the “cycling industry” is something else altogether than what you describe. Normal people use normal bicycles which are not too expensive, especially because you really don’t want to park a 1000+ EUR on the street, not if you want to come back and still find all of it there.
Further, even at the high-end, the actual pros know how to fix their own bicycles and know the value of standardized components: it’s really only the “two-wheel fashionistas” that would go for overpriced bicycles with non-standard elements.
Going after cycling because of a few idiots (and there are idiots in every human endeavour) and calling it pro-Ecology is the pinnacle of stupidity and doing the work of the enemy.
I am indeed talking about consumer high-end cycling, and I see it poisoning peoples minds in my city with their marketing that says to be eco-friendly and cycle to work you have to buy a brand new bike for £1000. I am arguing about the case in my city and the direction I don’t want to see cycling in general take. I agree with you that in many places, cycling is much better, the Netherlands is a great example. I am not going after cycling as a whole, just the rich directors of Shimano, SRAM, Trek, Specialized, etc. that have greenwashed expensive high-end cycling and make people believe that they need the latest stuff. I am not saying that the industry is already in a bad place, just that it could head that way.
So what’s the problem if the high-end consumer types are being fleeced by a subset of the industry?! There being a segment of the industry fleecing them is sorta the standard for all people who take a fashionista approach to anything, not just cycling: the crowd doing stuff to be seen doing stuff are always feeding from and feeding back a whole segment selling overpriced “for show” stuff. I mean, think Fashion (the clothing and shoes one): there’s High Fashion for people with more money than sense and then there’s a far far larger segment of the industry for everybody else.
During my time cycling in London I kept on doing it in a relaxed way like in The Netherlands (even though the cycling facilities in London were laughable compared to those in even the smallest of dutch towns) and yeah, there were plenty of what I called “Les tour de France” (fancy bicyle, kitted like they’re in The Tour complete with fake sponsor sticks) commuting right along with me but that didn’t seem to make any difference for the regular cycling community or their access to decently priced equipment.
Sure, whilst on one hand seeing people out there commuting by bicycle over-dressed (if you will) might make many think they need all that kit to do it, on the other seeing lots of people cycling on the road also gives confidence to others that “it’s not that dangerous after all” and inspires them to try it, plus also trains the other road users to properly account for bicycles sharing the road with them. Certainly this is what I saw during my years commuting to work by bicycle in London when, in 6 or 7 years, it went from quite niche to a lot more common.
As far as I can tell either there is really no difference for the wider cycling community that such people exists or they might even be subsidizing the rest by overpaying for untested new equipment which sometimes ends up getting adapted for the broader community (and there standards do matter and a parts maker is not really going to be able to sell parts that require bulk cycle manufacturers to make custom solutions just for those parts) plus they’re helping to get everybody else used to there being bicycles on the road.
I’m not arguing against a strawman, I’m arguing against an extreme case. In the city where I live, people buying loads of fancy new expensive bikes to seem “eco-friendly” is large. The number of high-end bike shops is large. Repair costs are extreme; £60 for a medium job. This is of course, a predominantly white, affluent city. I regularly see new gravel and commuter bikes (the latest trend) manufactured by the likes of Specialized, Trek, Canyon. These cost in the region of £1000 ± 200. I agree that there is not mass migration away from standard parts yet, but I am worried that that is the direction the cycling industry wants to take. There is already an explosion of different cassette standards, meaning you need unique tools to change many of the new cassettes. Disk brakes add complexity and expense, and your average commuter bike arguably does not need disk brakes, they are just a shiny addition to make it more marketable. My argument is against the increase of these expensive bikes, fancy parts and brands that produce them, as it just pushes people away from cycling and the ecological and health benefits it can bring.
I’ve commuted to work by bicycle maybe 2 decades out of my career of almost 3 decades, NEVER with any bicyle worth more than 200 EUR (during my time in The Netherlands I always got second hand bicycles … well, more likely 4th or 5h hand) and you clearly have no fucking clue what you’re talking about.
You’re talking about, maybe, the consumer high-end “recreative” cycling, the kind that’s sold to fad-following consumers who will at most pull out the bicycle on a weekend day, put on a “Tour de France” disguise (complete with “sponsor” sticks) and go cycle to be seen cycling.
In countries were people actually cycle for utility purposes those are a tiny fraction of people and the “cycling industry” is something else altogether than what you describe. Normal people use normal bicycles which are not too expensive, especially because you really don’t want to park a 1000+ EUR on the street, not if you want to come back and still find all of it there.
Further, even at the high-end, the actual pros know how to fix their own bicycles and know the value of standardized components: it’s really only the “two-wheel fashionistas” that would go for overpriced bicycles with non-standard elements.
Going after cycling because of a few idiots (and there are idiots in every human endeavour) and calling it pro-Ecology is the pinnacle of stupidity and doing the work of the enemy.
I am indeed talking about consumer high-end cycling, and I see it poisoning peoples minds in my city with their marketing that says to be eco-friendly and cycle to work you have to buy a brand new bike for £1000. I am arguing about the case in my city and the direction I don’t want to see cycling in general take. I agree with you that in many places, cycling is much better, the Netherlands is a great example. I am not going after cycling as a whole, just the rich directors of Shimano, SRAM, Trek, Specialized, etc. that have greenwashed expensive high-end cycling and make people believe that they need the latest stuff. I am not saying that the industry is already in a bad place, just that it could head that way.
So what’s the problem if the high-end consumer types are being fleeced by a subset of the industry?! There being a segment of the industry fleecing them is sorta the standard for all people who take a fashionista approach to anything, not just cycling: the crowd doing stuff to be seen doing stuff are always feeding from and feeding back a whole segment selling overpriced “for show” stuff. I mean, think Fashion (the clothing and shoes one): there’s High Fashion for people with more money than sense and then there’s a far far larger segment of the industry for everybody else.
During my time cycling in London I kept on doing it in a relaxed way like in The Netherlands (even though the cycling facilities in London were laughable compared to those in even the smallest of dutch towns) and yeah, there were plenty of what I called “Les tour de France” (fancy bicyle, kitted like they’re in The Tour complete with fake sponsor sticks) commuting right along with me but that didn’t seem to make any difference for the regular cycling community or their access to decently priced equipment.
Sure, whilst on one hand seeing people out there commuting by bicycle over-dressed (if you will) might make many think they need all that kit to do it, on the other seeing lots of people cycling on the road also gives confidence to others that “it’s not that dangerous after all” and inspires them to try it, plus also trains the other road users to properly account for bicycles sharing the road with them. Certainly this is what I saw during my years commuting to work by bicycle in London when, in 6 or 7 years, it went from quite niche to a lot more common.
As far as I can tell either there is really no difference for the wider cycling community that such people exists or they might even be subsidizing the rest by overpaying for untested new equipment which sometimes ends up getting adapted for the broader community (and there standards do matter and a parts maker is not really going to be able to sell parts that require bulk cycle manufacturers to make custom solutions just for those parts) plus they’re helping to get everybody else used to there being bicycles on the road.
You clearly didn’t read what they wrote, and then went on a tirade about it.
Nothing you said really applies as a retort to the other user’s comment.
deleted by creator
I’m not arguing against a strawman, I’m arguing against an extreme case. In the city where I live, people buying loads of fancy new expensive bikes to seem “eco-friendly” is large. The number of high-end bike shops is large. Repair costs are extreme; £60 for a medium job. This is of course, a predominantly white, affluent city. I regularly see new gravel and commuter bikes (the latest trend) manufactured by the likes of Specialized, Trek, Canyon. These cost in the region of £1000 ± 200. I agree that there is not mass migration away from standard parts yet, but I am worried that that is the direction the cycling industry wants to take. There is already an explosion of different cassette standards, meaning you need unique tools to change many of the new cassettes. Disk brakes add complexity and expense, and your average commuter bike arguably does not need disk brakes, they are just a shiny addition to make it more marketable. My argument is against the increase of these expensive bikes, fancy parts and brands that produce them, as it just pushes people away from cycling and the ecological and health benefits it can bring.