No offense met, because you raise a lot of good points on why Star Trek works as a setting, but I fundamentally disagree with the Star Wars take here. Historically, Star Wars has centered around the Skywalker saga for Personal (George Lucas) and Business (Disney) reasons, not creative ones.
I don’t see the point of disagreement here, although this could bear more exploring as to what, exactly, you mean.
Star Wars offers an excellent setting with a framework to discuss ethics and morality baked directly into the universe. Stories like Knights of the Old Republic have shown that you can get away from the main Saga and still tell an engaging story rooted in the universe that Saga created. Tons of old Legends content didn’t tie directly into the original films and were excellent.
yeah, sure. they just haven’t yet (not in official-can media like the shows/films), and I think that’s a huge shame. it’s certainly where they should go next and a great way to breathe new life into the franchise.
Andor has also shown that it’s also just that bad writing is what leads to IP burnout.
kinda, but I think what Andor mostly did was show that a SW could survive both a massive tonal shift and making a show marketed solely towards adults that was much more violent and contained mature themes that was beyond what children could deal with. Also, it finally addresses complex issues such as the internal machinations of the ESB, and comes off as more sci-fi than sci-fantasy. It’s not a “fun” show. It’s dark and mean. And you already know everyone’s going to die horribly. And it’s awesome because it’s made with no restraints.
Trek tried this with DIS and PIC, and it blew up in their faces— mostly because Trek isn’t that kind of universe.
My point was that Star Wars has been tied to the same characters for personal and business reasons, not inherently creative ones defined by the setting. The difference IMO is mostly down to who the creators and executives involved in the process of each IP have been, not the actual merits of the respective IP’s worlds.
If Gene Roddenberry has decided that Next Generation had to be about Kirk and his crew, and then Paramount also mandated all it’s other Star Trek projects to be about TOS crew, we’d be having the same discussions about “why can’t Start Trek get away from the original series?” even though it has nothing to do with the setting.
My point was that Star Wars has been tied to the same characters for personal and business reasons, not inherently creative ones defined by the setting. The difference IMO is mostly down to who the creators and executives involved in the process of each IP have been, not the actual merits of the respective IP’s worlds.
oh, well, I’m sure that’s true. and I wasn’t arguing that (at least the current) creators/creatives were sticking to it for lack of imagination, just that one of the problems is that they are for whatever reason and that stepping away from it to focus on another period would greatly benefit everyone. I think we agree on this, it’s just that I was, perhaps, unclear in my criticism or what or even who, precisely, I was criticizing.
I also realize that the decision is not that of the creatives alone, but can be stifled by the stubbornness of the studios. but I don’t really think the likes of Filoni and Favraeu et al are so limited any more, having earned a lot of creative freedoms with their repeated successes. sure, there may be issues related to getting the rights to some of the stories, but I believe there’s genuine interest in developing the previous eras. I thin it was at the SW Con in March where Filoni laid out his new planned timeline, and there was Old Republic and High Republic eras noted on it that he planned to start writing stories for. So, I’m hopeful.
I don’t see the point of disagreement here, although this could bear more exploring as to what, exactly, you mean.
yeah, sure. they just haven’t yet (not in official-can media like the shows/films), and I think that’s a huge shame. it’s certainly where they should go next and a great way to breathe new life into the franchise.
kinda, but I think what Andor mostly did was show that a SW could survive both a massive tonal shift and making a show marketed solely towards adults that was much more violent and contained mature themes that was beyond what children could deal with. Also, it finally addresses complex issues such as the internal machinations of the ESB, and comes off as more sci-fi than sci-fantasy. It’s not a “fun” show. It’s dark and mean. And you already know everyone’s going to die horribly. And it’s awesome because it’s made with no restraints.
Trek tried this with DIS and PIC, and it blew up in their faces— mostly because Trek isn’t that kind of universe.
My point was that Star Wars has been tied to the same characters for personal and business reasons, not inherently creative ones defined by the setting. The difference IMO is mostly down to who the creators and executives involved in the process of each IP have been, not the actual merits of the respective IP’s worlds.
If Gene Roddenberry has decided that Next Generation had to be about Kirk and his crew, and then Paramount also mandated all it’s other Star Trek projects to be about TOS crew, we’d be having the same discussions about “why can’t Start Trek get away from the original series?” even though it has nothing to do with the setting.
oh, well, I’m sure that’s true. and I wasn’t arguing that (at least the current) creators/creatives were sticking to it for lack of imagination, just that one of the problems is that they are for whatever reason and that stepping away from it to focus on another period would greatly benefit everyone. I think we agree on this, it’s just that I was, perhaps, unclear in my criticism or what or even who, precisely, I was criticizing.
I also realize that the decision is not that of the creatives alone, but can be stifled by the stubbornness of the studios. but I don’t really think the likes of Filoni and Favraeu et al are so limited any more, having earned a lot of creative freedoms with their repeated successes. sure, there may be issues related to getting the rights to some of the stories, but I believe there’s genuine interest in developing the previous eras. I thin it was at the SW Con in March where Filoni laid out his new planned timeline, and there was Old Republic and High Republic eras noted on it that he planned to start writing stories for. So, I’m hopeful.