• Veraxus
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    1 year ago

    Communism literally - by Marx and Engel’s own definition - requires the “withering away of the state”. As the creators and originators of the very concept of “communism”, can you name one society that has met their criteria or achieved the goals laid out in their definition?

    • @[email protected]
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      11 year ago

      Yes, I understand that Marx and Engels did not have realistic political ideals and that every attempt to implement their ideology has diverged from their utopian vision into authoritarianism when reality hits that ideology. That’s the point.

      • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]
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        31 year ago

        Yes, I understand that Marx and Engels did not have realistic political ideals

        Have you read any of Marx? I’m not an ML but if you even glance at Capital you can tell that Marx’s whole schtick was using science to come up with realistic political ideals.

      • Veraxus
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        11 year ago

        I see you moved the goal post to a different field.

        If you want to criticize the specifics of Marx/Engels proposals, that is very different than - whether by ignorance or malice - outright lying about them.

          • Veraxus
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            1 year ago

            I didn’t say anything about Marx or Engels. I talked about communism.

            Oh dear. 🤦🏽

              • Veraxus
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                11 year ago

                Ok, let me spell this out…

                1. Marx and Engels created the concept of Communism. They carefully defined it.

                2. No nation in the history of the world has come close to meeting the criteria/definition of Communism.

                3. You cannot pick a Communist nation because not one has ever existed. Literally. By definition.

                A dictator who lies about their dictatorship is still a dictator, just as a wolf in sheep’s clothing is still a wolf.

                • @[email protected]
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                  11 year ago

                  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

                  Since communism has proven to be impossible to implement and every attempt has resulted in brutal authoritarian regimes, we can either say communism is an incoherent mess of a utopian ideology which can’t exist, or an ideology that de facto endorses brutal authoritarianism. Dealer’s choice

                  • Veraxus
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                    21 year ago

                    Other than not understanding how logical fallacies work, you’ve almost got it. Keep at it and I’m sure you’ll get there, eventually.