Not a bad assessment. I voted for him in 2016, and given the current situation, I’d probably do it again if he was the chosen candidate. That said, I think he’s done what was needed as a disruption to the system, and I would rather have somebody with less of an ego to stroke, and ideally less involvement with the financial elite.
Edit: Bring on the downvotes, I guess. I simply provided an honest perspective to help answer the posted question.
The only disruption a rich, white, old, NYC real-estate mogul provided to the system was saying the quiet parts out loud and forcing establishment R’s to choose between embracing his bullshit or alienating their bigoted base.
I can understand desperation, but it seems like the primary disruption has been a weakening of our democratic system and the ability for anything to get done at all, I don’t understand how this is seen as a positive even if life is expensive.
I also don’t understand how things like tax cuts that roll themselves back for normal people and not for the rich are seen as helpful.
Thanks for your honest answer, but how do you view the fact that he refused to accept defeat and tried to undermine the country’s democracy? Does that concern you? Honest question from a non- American.
Not to pull a whataboutism, but this happened in 2016 as well. Claims of Russian hacks and election fraud from the left, and the infamous “Here’s how Bernie can still win” meme that we all know and love.
It doesn’t excuse it from the right, but it’s not a uniquely partisan issue.
More importantly though, the democrats claimed those were the things that caused them to lose the vote. They did not claim they did win, and those things were the things that point out that they did win.
“These are the things that made us lose” =/= “These are the reasons we didn’t lose”
Hold up. OP asked a reasonable question and vector_zero gave his answer without being abusive or even unpleasant. The downvotes and your reply are not conducive to a reasonable discussion. This isn’t Reddit. We can be better.
Sure- I don’t see it like vector. But I’d like to think we could talk about it with civility.
I absolutely hate Trump and I’m disappointed that an honest and unpopular opinion received downvotes. It reminds me of the single downvotes on comments such as “we need to stop gun violence.” It signifies partisan politics rather than open discussion.
You can down vote and still be civil. While vector_zero gave a calm and honest accounting from their perspective, it was an effectively empty comment without any verification.
One could argue that, if you wanted a deep and data driven approach to the motivations of trump voters, you just aren’t likely to get it… Ever.
You’ve effectively paraphrased Hillary’s “basket of deplorables” quote. Attempting to alienate your opponents and treat them like rabid animals is not a winning move.
Do you not realize the purposeful damage people like you who voted for that sociopath have done and continue to do?
Toxic, divisive, and unproductive language. You’re also conveniently disregarding the fact that Trump’s opponent was the only person in the whole country capable of losing to him. You should direct your anger toward the people responsible for electing her during the primaries, rather than a lone person, in California (who therefore had no impact on his election), who cast his vote 7 years ago.
I disagree with most of your points, but damned if you’re not right about that. The DNC shares a lot of blame for inflicting Trump on us, after straight up rigging the 2016 primaries against Bernie. Of course the Republicans also just rolled over and let him drive their entire party off the alt right cliff, so maybe the lesson is that all politicians are weasels.
That said, if the choice is between a corrupt and spineless weasel and a rabid hyena intent of tearing the country down around his ears, I’ll pick the one that’s less likely to bit my face off.
There is plenty of room for common ground on that. I could not vote for her either. I have the unpopular opinion that she would have been much worse for the country. And I REALLY dislike T. (I didn’t vote for him either.)
Thanks for keeping this all civil. Voices like yours are needed to prevent the Reddification of Lemmy.
This person gave a cogent and reasoned reply to the question and allowed us to see the reasoning of people on the other side, an opportunity rarely afforded to us here. And your response is an ad-hominim attack? Really?
Not all disruptions are the same. If you’re constipated you want to change the status quo, but that doesn’t mean shooting yourself in the dick is going to make anything better. So I think “we needed a change” is some combination of incomplete, dishonest, or thoughtless.
Also conservatives have bad takes on every issue so voting for one is not great.
Yeah, and some of those stories go “black people make me uncomfortable I don’t want them to live here” or “I don’t care about pollution I’m not going to be around to deal with it” or “we should just hang the gays” or any number of higher hanging fruit.
You can be the good guy in your story but if you vote conservative you are doing a bad thing, and you should stop.
Sad to see that our voting here is just as messed up as it was on Reddit. People will downvote a sensible cogent reply because they don’t like the politics of the poster. Then they’ll go and upvote a braindead 2 word comment like “fuck Trump”. Lemmings indeed.
You’re not going to get anyone not connected to the financial elites. They didn’t foresee Trump winning, and now they’re doing everything in their power to see that someone even slightly outside the system will never get elected again. You could fill 100 filing cabinets with all the crimes committed by all the presidents in the last century, yet he’s the only one thats actually having charges levied against him. The people prosecuting him don’t give a crap about justice, or whatever they think he did. They just want him out of the way. They’ve looked the other way at crimes 100X worse by others because they play the game.
I didn’t vote for him because I just got tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. The binary election system is a farce. People arguing between Democrats and Republicans are just useful idiots. I shall continue to be an unuseful idiot.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Ranked choice voting would be a very welcome improvement to this garbage system, but obviously the government doesn’t want that to go into effect.
Not a bad assessment. I voted for him in 2016, and given the current situation, I’d probably do it again if he was the chosen candidate. That said, I think he’s done what was needed as a disruption to the system, and I would rather have somebody with less of an ego to stroke, and ideally less involvement with the financial elite.
Edit: Bring on the downvotes, I guess. I simply provided an honest perspective to help answer the posted question.
The only disruption a rich, white, old, NYC real-estate mogul provided to the system was saying the quiet parts out loud and forcing establishment R’s to choose between embracing his bullshit or alienating their bigoted base.
I can understand desperation, but it seems like the primary disruption has been a weakening of our democratic system and the ability for anything to get done at all, I don’t understand how this is seen as a positive even if life is expensive.
I also don’t understand how things like tax cuts that roll themselves back for normal people and not for the rich are seen as helpful.
Thanks for your honest answer, but how do you view the fact that he refused to accept defeat and tried to undermine the country’s democracy? Does that concern you? Honest question from a non- American.
Not to pull a whataboutism, but this happened in 2016 as well. Claims of Russian hacks and election fraud from the left, and the infamous “Here’s how Bernie can still win” meme that we all know and love.
It doesn’t excuse it from the right, but it’s not a uniquely partisan issue.
Well, first you did exactly pull a whatabout-ism.
More importantly though, the democrats claimed those were the things that caused them to lose the vote. They did not claim they did win, and those things were the things that point out that they did win.
“These are the things that made us lose” =/= “These are the reasons we didn’t lose”
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Hold up. OP asked a reasonable question and vector_zero gave his answer without being abusive or even unpleasant. The downvotes and your reply are not conducive to a reasonable discussion. This isn’t Reddit. We can be better.
Sure- I don’t see it like vector. But I’d like to think we could talk about it with civility.
That’s a losing battle I’m afraid. The power of an echo chamber is too strong.
FTR I was also disappointed to see the downvotes on an honest, if unpopular, opinion.
I absolutely hate Trump and I’m disappointed that an honest and unpopular opinion received downvotes. It reminds me of the single downvotes on comments such as “we need to stop gun violence.” It signifies partisan politics rather than open discussion.
Are we not supposed to use down vote for “I disagree with this but I don’t have the energy for a full reply”?
Downvotes should be reserved for comments that add nothing to the discussion. It’s not a disagreement button.
At least that was the original intent.
You can down vote and still be civil. While vector_zero gave a calm and honest accounting from their perspective, it was an effectively empty comment without any verification.
One could argue that, if you wanted a deep and data driven approach to the motivations of trump voters, you just aren’t likely to get it… Ever.
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You’ve effectively paraphrased Hillary’s “basket of deplorables” quote. Attempting to alienate your opponents and treat them like rabid animals is not a winning move.
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Toxic, divisive, and unproductive language. You’re also conveniently disregarding the fact that Trump’s opponent was the only person in the whole country capable of losing to him. You should direct your anger toward the people responsible for electing her during the primaries, rather than a lone person, in California (who therefore had no impact on his election), who cast his vote 7 years ago.
I disagree with most of your points, but damned if you’re not right about that. The DNC shares a lot of blame for inflicting Trump on us, after straight up rigging the 2016 primaries against Bernie. Of course the Republicans also just rolled over and let him drive their entire party off the alt right cliff, so maybe the lesson is that all politicians are weasels.
That said, if the choice is between a corrupt and spineless weasel and a rabid hyena intent of tearing the country down around his ears, I’ll pick the one that’s less likely to bit my face off.
There is plenty of room for common ground on that. I could not vote for her either. I have the unpopular opinion that she would have been much worse for the country. And I REALLY dislike T. (I didn’t vote for him either.)
Thanks for keeping this all civil. Voices like yours are needed to prevent the Reddification of Lemmy.
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Blind rage is unproductive online, and highly detrimental in real life. I wish you the best.
This person gave a cogent and reasoned reply to the question and allowed us to see the reasoning of people on the other side, an opportunity rarely afforded to us here. And your response is an ad-hominim attack? Really?
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Not all disruptions are the same. If you’re constipated you want to change the status quo, but that doesn’t mean shooting yourself in the dick is going to make anything better. So I think “we needed a change” is some combination of incomplete, dishonest, or thoughtless.
Also conservatives have bad takes on every issue so voting for one is not great.
Everyone is the good guy of their own story.
Yeah, and some of those stories go “black people make me uncomfortable I don’t want them to live here” or “I don’t care about pollution I’m not going to be around to deal with it” or “we should just hang the gays” or any number of higher hanging fruit.
You can be the good guy in your story but if you vote conservative you are doing a bad thing, and you should stop.
Sad to see that our voting here is just as messed up as it was on Reddit. People will downvote a sensible cogent reply because they don’t like the politics of the poster. Then they’ll go and upvote a braindead 2 word comment like “fuck Trump”. Lemmings indeed.
No one likes bootlickers. What a shock.
You’re not going to get anyone not connected to the financial elites. They didn’t foresee Trump winning, and now they’re doing everything in their power to see that someone even slightly outside the system will never get elected again. You could fill 100 filing cabinets with all the crimes committed by all the presidents in the last century, yet he’s the only one thats actually having charges levied against him. The people prosecuting him don’t give a crap about justice, or whatever they think he did. They just want him out of the way. They’ve looked the other way at crimes 100X worse by others because they play the game.
I didn’t vote for him because I just got tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. The binary election system is a farce. People arguing between Democrats and Republicans are just useful idiots. I shall continue to be an unuseful idiot.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Ranked choice voting would be a very welcome improvement to this garbage system, but obviously the government doesn’t want that to go into effect.