The ritual is done at least 20 times, with months or years between each session, taking 10 to 30 minutes. The ones that pass through it all are accepted as warriors and future leaders
https://pib.socioambiental.org/en/Povo:Sateré_Mawé
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mawé_people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraponera_clavata (bullet ant)
Oh, did you grow up in an indigenous community that practices this?
Those kids you’re talking about, did they experience growing up in an indigenous community that practices this? Are you talking about these rituals, or are you randomly talking about people who hurt a bunch?
Because it sounds like you’re speaking from an outside perspective, about things that aren’t the topic at hand. Weird how you think that opinion is relevant.
No, no. You see, anything that would cause a privileged modern person discomfort is abuse. This includes the idea that the world is a tough place, the idea of anti-fragility as a mental adaptation to it, or even useful negativity; the idea that it could take actual blood, sweat, and tears to achieve something, they’re all abuse. /s ig.
Pick one.
Well if I must pick between:
“Picking” becomes silly, your false dichotomy is a sham. Pointing out differences between similar and adjacent concepts used for different purposes doesn’t actually prop up yours, it just shows I took liberties to roast people like you, because I think people like you also do the same over lesser situations.
As a side note on nuances being ignored here, the one source here says days, others say hours. I’m sure enough it varies by person and actual dosage, as always. This kind of rough characterization and cherry-picking for the sake of impact should be expected from all sources as a foundation of critical thinking. Males in that tribe willingly go through that ceremony 20+ times in their lifetime.
Pearl-clutching your way into validating pain-avoidance as a priority worth pursuing over other practical aspects of life might be the way for you, but it’s not watertight enough to impose on others.
https://www.theguardian.com/childrens-books-site/2013/jul/17/steve-backshall-interview
Perfection
Let’s put that person outside for a few months and see how they do
That’s really not what [email protected] is saying or the point they are making, which is a fair one. Kicking it out of way by waving a big “cultural relativism” sign doesn’t do anything to address it.
If one was so inclined, one could even argue that whole idea that an 11 year old indigenous boy is somehow more grown up and “a man” is essentially the same as the racist outlook that considers black boys to no longer be kids but dangerous men when they get closer to their teens.
Indigenous people, living immersed in the natural world, deciding that an 11 year old is old enough to decide on their own start a journey into adulthood while surrounded by adults who care deeply for them,
Is absolutely nothing like a racist white person deciding that an 11 year old black child should be ripped from their family and treated as an adult against their will.
That’s such an insane comparison that your intentions come into severe question.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Many people do fucked up things to others believing it’s in their best interest. Still doesn’t excuse it.
unknownuser’s argument is that the boy couldn’t consent because he’d be surrounded by people telling him that the only way to be a leader is to take the ritual. The quote, verbatim:
If that’s all it takes to remove consent, then we might as well isolate every children from other people.
I sincerely doubt anyone in the group would be telling him “you should totally do it! It’ll be awesome!”, but rather that he better think twice before doing it and what to expect in the immediate aftermath of the ritual, not in a “you might feel” but in a “you will feel” way, because those stings are no joke. I wouldn’t be surprised if the boy even went so far as to take a single sting sometime before the ritual just to know how deep in shit he’d be.
Oor, hear me out, ideas around morality and consent in the more nuanced-filled space of what would be considered psychological damage versus mental training are undoubtedly biased by the way any observer is raised and so impossible to claim that they can have absolute moral judgments placed on them without taking cultural relativism into account.
They made the big bold claims and moral accusations first.
You shouldn’t convince kids to torture themselves, and"the way they were raised" is no excuse. Bold statement, I know.
Hm, or maybe you should allow them to partake in mental training because it could help them overcome challenges more efficiently in the future, making the trade-off worthwhile. I know the ideas of conditioning and building tolerance might be foreign to you, but they’re not foreign to everyone. This isn’t settled science or anything, so for the moment you might have to take a seat down from your high horse and accept the possibility of alternate views existing with plausible arguments behind them.
Weird how you think that you have to experienced something to talk about it. Do people have to experience rape to be allowed to talk about it in your opinion? Do people have to experience a war to be allowed to talk about it? Do people have to experience depression to talk about it?
Yes
I think anyone who has experienced those things has more standing to talk about them, and they should discount the opinions of those who haven’t, especially when those opinions are completely opposed to everything they learned from the experience. On top of that, they immediately have more standing than both the rapist and the oligarch sending them to war, before they even open their mouths
oR Do yOu tHiNk a rAPiSt sHoULd bE LisTeNeD tO oN ThEiR oPInIOn aBoUt RaPe?