Following the announcement by beehaw admins to defederate from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, there has been many posts and messages regarding that decisions and what other instances will do.
I personally believe Lemmy/kbin can only thrive if there is a free flow of content between different instances, with instance admins taking a back seat and focusing more on the infrastructure and making sure the technical bugs are smoothened out. Community mods can moderate their communities, and users can block the communities they don’t find appealing (there’s even a toggle in settings to hide every NSFW post from your feed altogether).
We don’t want to create walled gardens, nor do we want to make Lemmy more confusing than it already is for new users. We will not be defederating from any instance if there is even one good community on it that our instance users might find useful. So far we have only blocked lemmygrad.ml, and right now we have no plans to block anyone else.
And not all liberals are pro war advocates… but some are.
Just because they like him, doesn’t mean they admire everything he did. The idea behind the USSR, yes, not the war crimes he commited. And there are war crimes on both sides of the fence, not just on Stalin’s side, yet they go unrecognized in history. If we villanize, let’s villanize both sides, not just one.
Sure! Fuck all war criminals, including the ones you seem to like defending. Listen, maybe people defederated lemmygrad because they “hate communists”, or maybe they fully understand their position, and find it objectionable on its own merits. I would, unambiguously, never say I liked a war criminal. If I found out somebody was a war criminal, I would stop liking them. I don’t want to be around people who like war criminals, either. To me, that either means they don’t know about the war crimes, or they’re kinda okay with the war crimes, and either option is bad.
The US took every rocket scientist from Nazi Germany after WWII and didn’t let any one of them get tried in Nimmberg for their war crimes, threatening with sanctions if anyone tried to portray them as criminals 😒.
I don’t like war crimes and criminals as well, but there are crimes on both sides, not just one. Just because one of them is pretty good at hiding, minimizing and justifying theirs, doesn’t mean they’re lesser crimes or that they didn’t happen.
Then you should probably stop liking half the US leadership, historically of course, cuz most of them have done things that can be catagorized as war crimes. They’re just really good at hiding or minimizing them.
If you don’t like them, that’s fine, block the communities. Defederating from them is not the answer IMO. And I will probably move to kbin because of this defederation BS.
The difference is almost nobody supports the presidents or officials that intiated said war crimes like president Bush. Tons of people hate Nixon too. Wheras these guys support Stalin despite his war crimes. If they supported USSR ideals without Stalin maybe that would be acceptable, but they don’t.
This is like if I tried to defend Hitler because of how he improved the economy, or his anti-smoking campaign.
Yes, but both presidents are still legit presidents in the history books. No history book ever mentions these things, you find them out through published papers or articles on the subject.
They support the ideas behind what Stalin did, as in how he ran the state. In general, I do agree with some of it as well. None of them agree with the extermination of 20M USSR citizens during his reign. Ask them, you’ll always get the same answer. I have, and I got the exact same answer I gave you now.
Plus, they mostly praise Lennin and Marx, the ideologies, not the people that implemented them. Not to mention that societies like that have been implemented anywhere for the 1st time ever in history, a completely different way of looking on things, mistakes are bound to happen. Not to the exempt what Stalin did (he did most of the attrocities on purpose, no doubt there, he just wanted more centralized power).
And what is wrong with how Hitler revitalized the economy? Please explain how that is bad 🤨. The idea is 100% good. If he was a dictator and did horrible things, that doesn’t mean all of the things he did were bad, most of them, yes, but why not take what is good from the things he did and just learn from that. Praise him, no, but praise that idea that is his, most definitely yes. After all, ask any doctor when were most advances in medical knowledge about the human body done, it was right after WWII, right after the allies snatched Mengele’s thousands of drawings, pictures, analysis, etc. Were the things Dr. Mengele did good? Of course not. Did they help greatly to progress medicine in the next 10 years or so? Most definitely yes. Should he be praised? No. Should he be mentioned as the one directly responsible for that progress. Yes.
I thought that one of the main ways hitler imprved the economy of Germany was through the war effort. Though I could ne wrong.
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Much like what the US is doing today, wouldn’t you say so 🤷?
Why have you commented twice the same thing?
I don’t support the US in general. If you’re talking about Ukraine specifically then Ukraine is in the right in this war, to the extent there is a right side in this war. NATO isn’t good but current day Russia is worse.
Bad signal, must’ve posted twice by mistake thinking the post didn’t go through.
I’m not talking about Russia or Ukraine nowadays. I was talking about all of the wars the US though are “necessary” to fight over the past 30 years or so, in order to perserve it’s way of life (whatever that means)… not to mention butting in into other countries wars, internal affairs, etc. Beside the point, by having these wars, they create new job oportunities for compaines (US based or not), mostly in contruction, thus boosting the econmy. Everyone knows construction booms are one of the main reasons for economy booms, and it’s completely logical.
Again. I DO hate all war criminals. I DON’T think US leadership is good. I am familiar with the numerous crimes of the American empire and find them objectionable on their own merits. I thought my comment above made it clear, but simping for any war criminal is icky, and if “both sides” have committed war crimes, then I want to be on NEITHER side. If genocide is part of your political strategy, you suck, and your politics sucks.
I don’t wanna be on neither side as well. I don’t agree with whatever attrocities one side or another did.
But let’s face it, the US does something, gets news coverage like “meeeh, it’s what they do, what can you do 🤷”, a communist country does the same and it’s “evil tankies! 😠”.
The inequality of how things are viewed is what bothers me. They all did unspeakable things, no doubt there and I don’t deny that they did. But just because someone is far left or far right, doesn’t necessarily make them evil. Not to mention that you can actually learn some really useful things and get some valuable info regarding certain subjects, as well as interpretations regarding certain events. I would rather have the option to view whatever I like with only 1 account, not have to have 3, 4, 5 because this instance or that instance decided to defderate from whatever.
That’s why I say that blocking works. You don’t like something? Block it. Defederation is stupid to say the least.
I mean, the people calling people tankies are usually anarchists. Not really the same people as cable news organizations lol. Most modern anarchists are highly critical of countries generally, and their own country specifically. At least from my experience, alot of mutual aid orgs and other explicitly anarchist movements in the US reject the premise that the land beneath their feet even BELONGS to the US government.
I guess I understand the backlash, but defederation IS blocking, its just community wide blocking. Some people don’t want to have to manage whether they’re exposed to certain content, they’d rather have their community do it for them. At least for me, beehaw has been pretty open about the conditions of why they defederated from certain instances (and why they are organizing development of more granular moderation tools, so they don’t feel like they have to). Maybe you can argue they are motivated by a sinister desire to restrict access, but at least from my perspective that isn’t a convincing argument. Certain communities want certain things, some may want unfettered access to everything the internet has to offer, but honestly? That ain’t me. I have other accounts on other platforms for that. Sometimes I don’t want to hear why the North Korean state is actually just responding to western aggression, or that trans people should die, or whatever else. Sometimes I do, I consume lots of media from people who I fundamentally disagree with, but that shit stresses me out sometimes. Do I think that lemmygrad is even primarily composed of people who think that way? No. But the admins of beehaw have been pretty clear about what they want out of their community, and as of right now, they don’t have the tools to moderate the influx of people coming over from other instances and being trolls, or not behaving according to the standards they have in place.
Just as a last note, though, I think that alot of the discourse about why defederation is bad is kinda philosophically at odds with the goals of the Fediverse to begin with. Remember, defederation is part of the structure of the Fediverse for a reason, and its partly because it gives autonomy to communities to decide what it is they want to do. Centralized platforms where one authority dictates what is and isn’t appropriate have been going through controversies about that for a WHILE now, and the solutions they come up with are often dogshit. The Fediverse makes these sorts of disagreements fundamentally MORE solvable than any preexisting platform, and with outcomes that mean the people affected have alternatives if they disagree with a decision. Honestly, I think this is a holdover from platforms like reddit, where admin decisions affect EVERYBODY and nobody really has a different place to go.
I think that you can think that YOU want to only block people and never defederate and also respect that other folks don’t necessarily want the same thing. That’s your choice. But if you join an instance that doesn’t moderate its users and that instance can post without limitation on instances like beehaw, which do have moderation standards, defederation is like… the only way that we currently have to stop assholes from brigading or being weirdos. Lemmy isn’t a public square, it isn’t the “front page of the internet”. Its like a community hall, or a political rally, or a convention center. Different instances have different standards, and some instances don’t necessarily want to have an open hallway connecting their Pride Parade to a KKK rally. Or, in a more nuanced example, if you’re hanging out with your friends somewhere, maybe you find someplace quiet and out of the way so you can chat privately. I just think giving people and communities more power in how they live their online lives, allowing them to do whatever they want, whenever they want? That’s just objectively BETTER than some corporation forcing you to stay in the same room as everybody else.
I dunno. You can do what you want. But I just really don’t think you need to be getting mad at other people somewhere else doing something you don’t like. Like… too bad lol. It ain’t your business. You can’t do anything about it, and nobody should be able to do anything about it. Embrace the chaos. Find where you want to be.
To be honest, the whole reddit thing didn’t affect me one bit, I never modded anything, never used 3rd party apps, always used the official app. I just thought that, yes, this does seem like a good idea, I don’t do any of those things, but apparently, a lot of people do and they like using those apps/tools, so, yeah, I’ll try this new thing, it’s opens source, it’s federated, no big brother hanging over your sholder… turns out, for my needs, it’s worse than what reddit was. For starters, I don’t need to have 3 main accounts just so that I can see all of the content of all of the communities I’d like to subscribe to. Second, I don’t have to open up new communities and moderate them and upload content, like I had to do now. And last, reddit actually tracks what I do. I know, that sounds bad, but I actually like it. Why? Because it remembers if I was active in a certain sub the last 2, 3, 4 days and the first feeds it gives me is from that sub, which I like, apparently I stayed over there for quite a while the last time I was active, which means I find it’s content interesting. Lemmy doesn’t have that. Call it evil, I call it a feature.
That makes sense. Reddit is a fully featured product. The interesting thing about open source projects for me, is that they’re slower to develop new features in the short term, but as more and more people come around, the breadth and scale of features can outpace commercial products, because anybody can contribute for any reason. To be honest, if you find the current state of things intolerable, maybe just wait a bit? As more people adopt and start contributing, things will get more polished. I’m almost certain the current defederation thing is just growing pains. As more tools get developed for people to customize their experience, as is the trend for open source, things will get better.
Maybe, we’ll see… I’ll stick around, but just to see how things turn out. My prediction is not as positive as yours, but I hope I’m wrong.
That was your experience. Not everyone else’s. My country had a dictatorship not too long ago, and believe me when I say this: We didn’t flood the streets with our cries of peace for no reason.