This relates to the BBC article [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66596790] which states “the UK should pay $24tn (£18.8tn) for its slavery involvement in 14 countries”.
The UK abolished slavery in 1833. That’s 190 years ago. So nobody alive today has a slave, and nobody alive today was a slave.
Dividing £18tn by the number of UK taxpayers (31.6m) gives £569 each. Why do I, who have never owned a slave, have to give £569 to someone who similarly is not a slave?
When I’ve paid my £569 is that the end of the matter forever or will it just open the floodgates of other similar claims?
Isn’t this just a country that isn’t doing too well, looking at the UK doing reasonably well (cost of living crisis excluded of course), and saying “oh there’s this historical thing that affects nobody alive today but you still have to give us trillions of Sterling”?
Shouldn’t payment of reparations be limited to those who still benefit from the slave trade today, and paid to those who still suffer from it?
(Please don’t flame me. This is NSQ. I genuinely don’t know why this is something I should have to pay. I agree slavery is terrible and condemn it in all its forms, and we were right to abolish it.)
That’s just a normal disagreement, though. Right?
Maybe. I wouldn’t personally argue it doesn’t help at all, but I also don’t feel like it’s that likely to be the most effective use of resources. I don’t have any issue with that approach in principle, just to be clear. I’m 100% in favor of whatever approach does the most good.
Idk what you mean by normal disagreement, but I have no intention of being hostile about this if that is what you mean?
This is kinda my overall point: worrying too much about the money being used “correctly” or “efficiently” above all else is a misdirection to keep the debate stagnated, and keep the issue of actually making reparations indefinitely in the future. The conversation of how the money can/will/should be spent isn’t a conversation that the countries that got rich off of slavery should be having, it is a discussion that the descendants of slaves should be having. Trying to make the decisions for them is just more of the same fucked up “we should be in charge of them for their own good” mentality.
Ah, that’s not what I meant. Sorry for not being clear. I was referring to where you originally said:
If the parent post was talking about “those people” as in a specific race, then the problem would be that person was being racist. So calling out a post for racist statements or overtones is different from just a normal disagreement about the best way to accomplish something. See what I mean?
quick edit:
“Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.” — I agree. I think we should try to identify the best way to use resources to help most effectively, but certainly not to the extent we’re just paralyzed and don’t do anything.
Hmm… An argument could possibly be made that that was some sort of racism, but it probably would be subconscious, unintentional, “supporting the system” kindof racism. In my experience, trying to call that out as racism directly just gets people all worked up arguing about what defines racism, and it is better to just try and make direct arguments about the topic at hand than open that can of worms every time.
Obviously this isn’t a very consistent rule, just a general thing I’ve noticed. Many times calling something out as racism is necessary for the conversation to be productive.
To put it a slightly different way, if the original person said “those people (black people, for example) can’t be trusted to use the money responsibly, we need to manage it for them” then criticizing that would basically be criticizing the person for being racist. I’m not saying you were rude or even very direct. I’m just saying that kind of criticism or counterargument is a different type than “I think method A is more effective than method B”. The latter is just about practical stuff and doesn’t touch on moral issues like racism.
Anyway, the way I interpreted your first post was arguing against that first type of problem. It’s very possible I misinterpreted both of you but hopefully why I said what I did makes more sense now.
Hah ok, now I get it.
I avoid arguing in a way that could be neatly divided into your two categories, on purpose. I try to find practical ways to talk about moral issues. Emphasis on try.