The USA had a chance to start again and get so many things right. So why are they so backwards with some things?
We’ve had legally-protected paid leave in the UK for almost a century now. Granted, we were the first in the world, but most of Europe and many other countries now have similar protections. Many of which are more generous than the UK’s.
That’s not to mention the myriad of other laws and protections covering unfair dismissal (the “at will” system is fucking dystopian, sorry), a years paid maternity leave, statutory sick pay, mandatory employer pension contributions, working time regulations and mandatory redundancy pay. All of which have no federally-enforced equivalent.
I’m honestly a bit shocked that only 66% support PTO. Surely it’s a no-brainer?
Is it a size thing? Is the idea of looking out for each other just untenable in such a large, diverse place?
I can’t imagine what it must be like to live in a place where 34% of people have such an individualistic “I’ve got mine” mentality, that they don’t even support mechanisms that virtually every other developed country collectively agrees is the fucking minimum needed in order to live reasonable existence.
The reason there are people who don’t support it is because of conservative shame culture. If you aren’t rich, it is because you are lazy. They don’t want to take anything away from the rich because they earned it and deserve it. If that means the worker suffers, then the worker should just work harder so they can be rich too.
You do if you’re in a union. At least my union does. Part of our pay package includes contributions to our PTO accounts at our credit union. As far as I’m aware, the same is true for all of the other big trade unions as well. We also have paid sick days that accrue over the course of the year with any unused getting rolled over or paid out if you quit.
The US had a strong labor movement before the 2nd world war and into the 1950s when union membership was at its highest and the middle class was thriving and wealth inequality was a fraction of what it is today. What killed it was the Cold war and the spectre of communism which was used by conservatives (there were conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans back then) as a bludgeon to effectively kill the labor movement over the following decades until Reagan finally put a stake through its heart in the 80s.
That’s the short version anyway. There’s obviously a lot more to it.
In any case, the good news is that a lot of people seem to be waking up and demanding change. Union membership is on the rise as are other encouraging signs. I’m way too jaded to be optimistic about it, but I’m not as pessimistic as I once was. My own union has won two strikes in the last 5 years, for example.
On the flipside, the left has managed to pretty thoroughly alienate a huge chunk of blue collar workers who should be their natural constituency, so that’s not great either.
We’re ruled over by a perverted form of Christianity Calvinism where your work equals your atonement towards god or some other bs. This also gets the libertarians all jizzed up because “temporarily embarrassed millionaire” mindset.
Just wanted to point out you don’t get 12 months paid maternity leave in the UK. Leave and pay have completely different rules so you have to think of them separately, even though they are intrinsically linked.
You are entitled to 12 months maternity leave, and in fact by law have to take the first 2 weeks (or 4 weeks for a factory worker) for health reasons. This is great but lots of women don’t take the full 12 months time because the last few months would often be unpaid so is not the main factor.
Statutory maternity pay, which is what you are guaranteed and what the government pays the company, is 90% of your average earnings for the first 6 weeks, then it is the lower of £172.48 or 90% of your average earnings, for the next 33 weeks. Notice thats not 52 weeks in total! The average is also based on a certain time before you know you’re pregnantso my wife got a bit screwed because of taking time off when changing job.
A lot of employers offer full paid maternity leave but it tends to be already better paying jobs or civil service jobs, and it’s for 6 or 9 months. Then it’s a reduced rate or even unpaid for last few months. There’s also some caveats like having to work there for a full year before getting full pay, depends on seniority etc, because it is down to company policy rather than legally required.
Paternity leave is up to 2 weeks leave but statutory pay is the lower of £172.48 or 90% of your average earnings. Again, better employers offer full pay for 2 weeks or more.
They introduced shared parental leave afew years ago but most people only saw the headline and didn’t realise you have to split out the pay, which is the lower of the two statutory amounts above. Good employers offer full pay for a few weeks but is very varied, even in “better” jobs. I wanted to take more shared parental leave time but would have to sacrifice my full pay to get it so could not afford it. My company at the time (well paid head office role at one of the largest banks in the UK) did not offer full pay for shared parental leave that is over paternity leave.
Most voters think its great because it works for them but actually there’s a lot of inequality/capitalism in it, and therfore much room for improvement.
Yes, it’s better than federally in America, and pregnancy/labour itself is completely free on the NHS so no costs on top but we should strive to be better, especially compared to a lot of continental European countries.
Our rules might be a good step up for you, especially as they’re in quite a capitalist society, but it should not be the end goal by any means!
That’s still way better than what we get… My wife got 4 months paid maternity leave when our daughter was born, and she works for a big bank, so better benefits than a lot of people.
You have FMLA, which guarantees that you won’t be fired (once approved) for 12 weeks. The first part uses your vacation days (because, apparently, being out on maternity is a vacation and you won’t need anymore days once you’re back), the rest of it is unpaid. Once 12 weeks rolls around, you either come back or get fired.
I did consider including more detail about maternity etc in my comment but in the end thought it wasn’t material to my point. I’m glad you took the time to add some more nuance as an aside though. Thanks 👍
The USA had a chance to start again and get so many things right. So why are they so backwards with some things?
We’ve had legally-protected paid leave in the UK for almost a century now. Granted, we were the first in the world, but most of Europe and many other countries now have similar protections. Many of which are more generous than the UK’s.
That’s not to mention the myriad of other laws and protections covering unfair dismissal (the “at will” system is fucking dystopian, sorry), a years paid maternity leave, statutory sick pay, mandatory employer pension contributions, working time regulations and mandatory redundancy pay. All of which have no federally-enforced equivalent.
I’m honestly a bit shocked that only 66% support PTO. Surely it’s a no-brainer?
Is it a size thing? Is the idea of looking out for each other just untenable in such a large, diverse place?
I can’t imagine what it must be like to live in a place where 34% of people have such an individualistic “I’ve got mine” mentality, that they don’t even support mechanisms that virtually every other developed country collectively agrees is the fucking minimum needed in order to live reasonable existence.
US has PTO, it is just much less than Europe.
The reason there are people who don’t support it is because of conservative shame culture. If you aren’t rich, it is because you are lazy. They don’t want to take anything away from the rich because they earned it and deserve it. If that means the worker suffers, then the worker should just work harder so they can be rich too.
US does not have guaranteed PTO. Most places do give some, but not everywhere. Even those who do give very little.
You do if you’re in a union. At least my union does. Part of our pay package includes contributions to our PTO accounts at our credit union. As far as I’m aware, the same is true for all of the other big trade unions as well. We also have paid sick days that accrue over the course of the year with any unused getting rolled over or paid out if you quit.
Join a union kids.
The US had a strong labor movement before the 2nd world war and into the 1950s when union membership was at its highest and the middle class was thriving and wealth inequality was a fraction of what it is today. What killed it was the Cold war and the spectre of communism which was used by conservatives (there were conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans back then) as a bludgeon to effectively kill the labor movement over the following decades until Reagan finally put a stake through its heart in the 80s.
That’s the short version anyway. There’s obviously a lot more to it.
In any case, the good news is that a lot of people seem to be waking up and demanding change. Union membership is on the rise as are other encouraging signs. I’m way too jaded to be optimistic about it, but I’m not as pessimistic as I once was. My own union has won two strikes in the last 5 years, for example.
On the flipside, the left has managed to pretty thoroughly alienate a huge chunk of blue collar workers who should be their natural constituency, so that’s not great either.
We’re ruled over by a perverted form of Christianity Calvinism where your work equals your atonement towards god or some other bs. This also gets the libertarians all jizzed up because “temporarily embarrassed millionaire” mindset.
Just wanted to point out you don’t get 12 months paid maternity leave in the UK. Leave and pay have completely different rules so you have to think of them separately, even though they are intrinsically linked.
You are entitled to 12 months maternity leave, and in fact by law have to take the first 2 weeks (or 4 weeks for a factory worker) for health reasons. This is great but lots of women don’t take the full 12 months time because the last few months would often be unpaid so is not the main factor.
Statutory maternity pay, which is what you are guaranteed and what the government pays the company, is 90% of your average earnings for the first 6 weeks, then it is the lower of £172.48 or 90% of your average earnings, for the next 33 weeks. Notice thats not 52 weeks in total! The average is also based on a certain time before you know you’re pregnantso my wife got a bit screwed because of taking time off when changing job.
A lot of employers offer full paid maternity leave but it tends to be already better paying jobs or civil service jobs, and it’s for 6 or 9 months. Then it’s a reduced rate or even unpaid for last few months. There’s also some caveats like having to work there for a full year before getting full pay, depends on seniority etc, because it is down to company policy rather than legally required.
Paternity leave is up to 2 weeks leave but statutory pay is the lower of £172.48 or 90% of your average earnings. Again, better employers offer full pay for 2 weeks or more.
They introduced shared parental leave afew years ago but most people only saw the headline and didn’t realise you have to split out the pay, which is the lower of the two statutory amounts above. Good employers offer full pay for a few weeks but is very varied, even in “better” jobs. I wanted to take more shared parental leave time but would have to sacrifice my full pay to get it so could not afford it. My company at the time (well paid head office role at one of the largest banks in the UK) did not offer full pay for shared parental leave that is over paternity leave.
Most voters think its great because it works for them but actually there’s a lot of inequality/capitalism in it, and therfore much room for improvement.
Yes, it’s better than federally in America, and pregnancy/labour itself is completely free on the NHS so no costs on top but we should strive to be better, especially compared to a lot of continental European countries.
Our rules might be a good step up for you, especially as they’re in quite a capitalist society, but it should not be the end goal by any means!
That’s still way better than what we get… My wife got 4 months paid maternity leave when our daughter was born, and she works for a big bank, so better benefits than a lot of people.
You have FMLA, which guarantees that you won’t be fired (once approved) for 12 weeks. The first part uses your vacation days (because, apparently, being out on maternity is a vacation and you won’t need anymore days once you’re back), the rest of it is unpaid. Once 12 weeks rolls around, you either come back or get fired.
I did consider including more detail about maternity etc in my comment but in the end thought it wasn’t material to my point. I’m glad you took the time to add some more nuance as an aside though. Thanks 👍