You gave me no new information, nothing to think about.
Because this is such a basic question that ALL the information has already been laid out. Ownership in microsoft is private, private individual privately own stocks in the company. Someone could, in theory, come along and buy up all the stocks of microsoft and run it as 1 person. Its such a basic fact its like you’re saying the sky is actually green. What nuanced argument are you supposed to give to such an outlandish and obviously wrong statement?
This is funny to me because this has already been clarified, but you just didn’t notice I guess? I said those companies were publicly traded, because that typically means they’ve gone fully public and their shares are up for grabs. You pointed out that technically houses can be traded publicly and still be privately owned. That’s why I switched to talking about shares, because that’s less ambiguous and makes it clear I’m referring to that actual portions of ownership. You have completely missed that nuance in an effort to scope in on the right words to win rhetorically, which is wholly unproductive as a conversational tactic in and of itself. As a result, you are the one conflating anything I say that’s related to the idea of public as publicly trade, even though I’m saying different words that mean different things. You are now the one conflating the terms, not me.
Im sorry I cant keep up with your ridiculous mental gymnastics here, Im just too attached to the reality we actually live in to keep track of how things work in your world where the biggest capitalist companies arent capitalist, but are actually socialist because 2 or more people have a stake in them. Ill make a mental note that private ownership is only when 1 and only 1 person owns all of something. And as soon as a couple of people privately own a thing, it becomes public ownership. Like how both my mum and dad own their house, that means their house is publicly owned? Or how my freind’s house is part owned by me and part owned by the bank so is also publicly owned too right?
Thus, defining the line of where it’s one or the other is difficult,
The entire point is its not. Private ownership and public ownership are 2 discrete categories. There may be some cases where they overlap or a re grey, but those are very few and far between, the vast majority fall neatly into one or the other. Your car? private. The roads you drive on? Public. The gas station you fill up at? Private. Because for something to be publicly owned it must be “owned” by the entirety of the “the public”. Which we usually define as the citizens of a country. So roads are publicly owned as they owned by the government, which (at least in theory) is the representative body of the citzens of the country, so (in theory) everyone in the country has part ownership of the road and has some say over what is done to it. The same cannot be said for Microsoft. I have no shares in Microsoft, so I have 0 ownership of it. So that means either I am not part of “the public” or Microsoft is not publicly owned. And since as a citizen of my country I am by definition part of the public, that means that MS is not publicly owned.
Also, it’s bad faith to act as if I should have preemptively answered this question.
You still havt answered it now, other than a shrug and a “its complicated” thats just mean to deflect from one of the many giant glaring flaws in this ridiculous argument. So let me ask one specific question very directly and you can tell me yes or no. If 2 people have a 50% stake in a thing, does that mean, according to your logic, that thing is publicly owned?
You talk about bad faith arguments but that all you are giving me.
Even your last 2 paragraphs are that as well. Trying to deflect from a simple topic by making it seem more deep and philosophical than it is. To go back to my earlier example, its like you’re arguing the sky is a green, I say its actually blue and you start going on about how words have arbitrary meanings and what I call blue could be what you call green. Its just nonsense to dristract from the actual point being made.
And that core argument is that big, publicly traded corporations are capitalist. And since you like your definitions from google so much ill give you a couple here
Capitalism: an economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state
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Private Ownership: the fact of being owned by a private individual or organization, rather than by the state or a public body.
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Public Ownership: ownership by the government of an asset, corporation, or industry.
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But please take an honest look at the way you’re talking to me right now.
Please understand just how ridiculous your argument is, i cannot stress enough just how ludicrous it is. So I feel like im giving you an appropriate level of respect given the circumstances.
Someone could, in theory, come along and buy up all the stocks of microsoft and run it as 1 person
And then it would be private, yes? Implying that before that happens, it’s not private?
Like how both my mum and dad own their house, that means their house is publicly owned?
No, that’s a family unit. I already said that.
Private comes from the Latin privus, which, in its origin, basically means family unit. The concept of the individual came later in the empire, because the prevailing theology involved forgiving an individual person’s sins, outside the perspective of their family. Latin was still the dominant language at the time, so “private” came to mean an individual or family unit. It remained so, because the wealth of the individual tends to be shared with the family anyway. Ownership is passed to next of kin, and family members typically help with and/or inherit businesses.
You still havt answered it now, other than a shrug and a “its complicated”
Actually I did answer, I very clearly gave you what I thought, and the reason behind it. Just read it:
Yes, if a private family unit or individual owns 50% of the stakes of a company, I think we can safely say it’s privately controlled, at the very least. That said, there would still be 50% owned by shareholders, so it’s still collectively owned to a degree. Ownership and control are different but equally important aspects. Looks like there’s nuance here, hey?
I gave you a straight answer on my belief, and expanded on why there’s nuance to the question. That’s different than not answering, and that’s different than just saying it’s complicated.
Private Ownership: the fact of being owned by a private individual or organization, rather than by the state or a public body.
So which private individual or organization owns Microsoft?
Because this is such a basic question that ALL the information has already been laid out. Ownership in microsoft is private, private individual privately own stocks in the company. Someone could, in theory, come along and buy up all the stocks of microsoft and run it as 1 person. Its such a basic fact its like you’re saying the sky is actually green. What nuanced argument are you supposed to give to such an outlandish and obviously wrong statement?
Im sorry I cant keep up with your ridiculous mental gymnastics here, Im just too attached to the reality we actually live in to keep track of how things work in your world where the biggest capitalist companies arent capitalist, but are actually socialist because 2 or more people have a stake in them. Ill make a mental note that private ownership is only when 1 and only 1 person owns all of something. And as soon as a couple of people privately own a thing, it becomes public ownership. Like how both my mum and dad own their house, that means their house is publicly owned? Or how my freind’s house is part owned by me and part owned by the bank so is also publicly owned too right?
The entire point is its not. Private ownership and public ownership are 2 discrete categories. There may be some cases where they overlap or a re grey, but those are very few and far between, the vast majority fall neatly into one or the other. Your car? private. The roads you drive on? Public. The gas station you fill up at? Private. Because for something to be publicly owned it must be “owned” by the entirety of the “the public”. Which we usually define as the citizens of a country. So roads are publicly owned as they owned by the government, which (at least in theory) is the representative body of the citzens of the country, so (in theory) everyone in the country has part ownership of the road and has some say over what is done to it. The same cannot be said for Microsoft. I have no shares in Microsoft, so I have 0 ownership of it. So that means either I am not part of “the public” or Microsoft is not publicly owned. And since as a citizen of my country I am by definition part of the public, that means that MS is not publicly owned.
You still havt answered it now, other than a shrug and a “its complicated” thats just mean to deflect from one of the many giant glaring flaws in this ridiculous argument. So let me ask one specific question very directly and you can tell me yes or no. If 2 people have a 50% stake in a thing, does that mean, according to your logic, that thing is publicly owned?
Even your last 2 paragraphs are that as well. Trying to deflect from a simple topic by making it seem more deep and philosophical than it is. To go back to my earlier example, its like you’re arguing the sky is a green, I say its actually blue and you start going on about how words have arbitrary meanings and what I call blue could be what you call green. Its just nonsense to dristract from the actual point being made.
And that core argument is that big, publicly traded corporations are capitalist. And since you like your definitions from google so much ill give you a couple here
.
.
.
Please understand just how ridiculous your argument is, i cannot stress enough just how ludicrous it is. So I feel like im giving you an appropriate level of respect given the circumstances.
And then it would be private, yes? Implying that before that happens, it’s not private?
No, that’s a family unit. I already said that. Private comes from the Latin privus, which, in its origin, basically means family unit. The concept of the individual came later in the empire, because the prevailing theology involved forgiving an individual person’s sins, outside the perspective of their family. Latin was still the dominant language at the time, so “private” came to mean an individual or family unit. It remained so, because the wealth of the individual tends to be shared with the family anyway. Ownership is passed to next of kin, and family members typically help with and/or inherit businesses.
Actually I did answer, I very clearly gave you what I thought, and the reason behind it. Just read it:
I gave you a straight answer on my belief, and expanded on why there’s nuance to the question. That’s different than not answering, and that’s different than just saying it’s complicated.
So which private individual or organization owns Microsoft?