The education minister says female Muslim students will not be allowed to wear the loose-fitting robe.

Pupils will be banned from wearing abayas, loose-fitting full-length robes worn by some Muslim women, in France’s state-run schools, the education minister has said.

The rule will be applied as soon as the new school year starts on 4 September.

France has a strict ban on religious signs in state schools and government buildings, arguing that they violate secular laws.

Wearing a headscarf has been banned since 2004 in state-run schools.

    • @afraid_of_zombiesEnglish
      7•1 year ago

      Just because I am an atheist does not mean I am against people having religion by law. I would prefer that no one has religion by choice. Just like I would prefer everyone to have healthy lifestyles. Just like I would prefer if we all stopped listening to rap-rock.

      There is a difference between what I wish and what I think should be lawful.

      • KalashEnglish
        0•1 year ago

        But you probably couldn’t loudly play rap-rock in a public school, either. Doing something in private or in public are quite different.

        I’m quite alright with the banning of religious symbols, but I do agree, banning what is essentially a robe, is a bit much. Then again, enforcing clothing standards is actually fairly common. People should be allowed to wear what they want, but within limits. I don’t think most people would find it appropriate if a stundent showed up to school in a bikini.

        • @afraid_of_zombiesEnglish
          2•1 year ago

          You are muddling distracting from learning with freedom of expression. They do not have to be in conflict. There is a difference between listening to vile music on your earbuds and blasting it. There is a difference between wearing a cross and standing on your desk to give the good news during math class.

          • KalashEnglish
            4•1 year ago

            There is also a difference between wearing a small cross around your neck and a t-shirt saying “sinners repent or burn in hell”.

            The question is, where, between all these differences, do we draw the line. And for context, I’m not really with France on this one.

            • @afraid_of_zombiesEnglish
              1•1 year ago

              Well not like anyone asked me but I would use criteria.

              • is this a documented repeatable distraction from learning?
              • has an effort been made to find a compromise if it is?
              • what is the motivation of the student?
              • is the cure worse than the disease?
              • is the rule being applied to students going to be applied to faculty?

              I would also begin with the presumption of freedom of expression. We should assume kids can wear what they want and make rules to lower it, instead of what we do is begin with the assumption that they have zero agency and give it.

              • KalashEnglish
                2•1 year ago

                We should assume kids can wear what they want

                Yes. But they are kids and with unlimited freedom, they tend to over do it. I’m more worried about giving them too much agency in general. But with Muslim kids there is also the real possibility of a dress code being enforced from home. And forcing a strict dress code in public schools could maybe help there. I’m not sure.

                But in generall I think you have good criteria. And the “abayas” (that is a word I just learned today) really doesn’t seem to fit them.

                • @afraid_of_zombiesEnglish
                  -1•1 year ago

                  Let them overdo it? What is absolute worse that can happen, a bunch of kids get into fashion design and start an arms race?

                  Being able to design and make clothing is a skill that I do not have but greatly respect from my few attempts at it. I would much rather see every kid being able to develop their skillset vs hobbling them. We would never do this with other skills. We would never demand that kids that are good at sports play badly because other parents forbid their children from playing. Other parents are going to hurt their children, that is very unfortunate but it doesn’t mean all kids have to be hurt to make it fair.