If someone shoplifts, the police should come by and impose their will on the shoplifter that they’re under arrest. If you’re raising a child, and the child doesn’t want to mow the lawn or keep their room clean, my opinion is that it’s your responsibility as a parent to address it in some fashion, instead of just saying “Oh well, he doesn’t want to.”
This is precisely what I was saying: There are contexts where you can say “X is right and Y is wrong and we need to enforce that,” and other contexts where yes, trying to enforce it is some form of human rights violation. There can legitimately be disagreement about which is which, but pretending that everything is the second case is just as wrong as pretending everything is the first case.
This is the authoritarian mindset – I don’t believe ruining someone’s life and putting them in danger of being shot is the solution to likely petty losses.
How about if someone breaks in your apartment and threatens your safety? Would you support the cops being authoritarian with them, maybe putting their life in danger if they’re resistive against being arrested, in that case?
The question (1) wasn’t someone who wants your stuff - it was specifically someone breaking in and endangering you personally (2) wasn’t about what you thought might happen if you called the cops; I asked it in a very specific way for this exact reason. If there happened to be police around, or somebody else who wasn’t the police, and that person intervened to stop you being assaulted and informed that endangering party that they were breaking the law and tried to forcefully subject them to the consequences of breaking the law. Would you support that action? Or you’d support the burglar’s right to be free from authoritarianism in their effort to hurt you?
I’m not trying to be combative with you about it. I do absolutely get the point about not wanting to engage with the justice system if the justice system isn’t interested in justice for you and in fact seems dangerous to you. But to me you’re clearly taking it to such a broader extreme that I honestly have trouble believing that you’d apply it to that extent as pertains your own life and safety.
I think being able to constructively address the very real problem of police misconduct has to include acknowledging the very genuine reality of “something very bad is happening and violent action is warranted to stop it.” Have I understood you accurately, that you’re saying you don’t think that’s true in any case? Because I feel like floating that argument actually makes it more difficult to address the very real problem of police violence, because it makes your viewpoint super easy to dismiss for someone who’s into the day-to-day reality of crime and law enforcement.
It’s not always, though.
If someone shoplifts, the police should come by and impose their will on the shoplifter that they’re under arrest. If you’re raising a child, and the child doesn’t want to mow the lawn or keep their room clean, my opinion is that it’s your responsibility as a parent to address it in some fashion, instead of just saying “Oh well, he doesn’t want to.”
This is precisely what I was saying: There are contexts where you can say “X is right and Y is wrong and we need to enforce that,” and other contexts where yes, trying to enforce it is some form of human rights violation. There can legitimately be disagreement about which is which, but pretending that everything is the second case is just as wrong as pretending everything is the first case.
Edit: spelling
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How about if someone breaks in your apartment and threatens your safety? Would you support the cops being authoritarian with them, maybe putting their life in danger if they’re resistive against being arrested, in that case?
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The question (1) wasn’t someone who wants your stuff - it was specifically someone breaking in and endangering you personally (2) wasn’t about what you thought might happen if you called the cops; I asked it in a very specific way for this exact reason. If there happened to be police around, or somebody else who wasn’t the police, and that person intervened to stop you being assaulted and informed that endangering party that they were breaking the law and tried to forcefully subject them to the consequences of breaking the law. Would you support that action? Or you’d support the burglar’s right to be free from authoritarianism in their effort to hurt you?
I’m not trying to be combative with you about it. I do absolutely get the point about not wanting to engage with the justice system if the justice system isn’t interested in justice for you and in fact seems dangerous to you. But to me you’re clearly taking it to such a broader extreme that I honestly have trouble believing that you’d apply it to that extent as pertains your own life and safety.
I think being able to constructively address the very real problem of police misconduct has to include acknowledging the very genuine reality of “something very bad is happening and violent action is warranted to stop it.” Have I understood you accurately, that you’re saying you don’t think that’s true in any case? Because I feel like floating that argument actually makes it more difficult to address the very real problem of police violence, because it makes your viewpoint super easy to dismiss for someone who’s into the day-to-day reality of crime and law enforcement.
Care to shoot me a dm with your address then?