They deleted their tweet (or I can’t find it because I refuse to sign into Twitter on my phone) but when oven first started hiring they were extremely condescending towards the idea of work life balance. It’s a startup perpetuating the idea that startup employees need to cut themselves off from their lives and focus on work for minimal benefits - you know, until it “takes off”.
It caused quite a stir when it was posted, I’m surprised it’s so forgotten now.
Deno is still around and is even actively used, you have to use it if you want to write a Supabase edge function, for example. But it’s not used in mainstream development from what I can tell, it just never took off because it’s a very large idea shift from Node that requires a decent sized learning curve to figure out. The benefits are also not enough that it’s worth re-learning how to write server-side JavaScript. If you wanna write server-side JavaScript, Node is good enough that it’s not worth re-learning.
Still though, Deno is fairly obscure from a mainstream development perspective, and that’s what I wish on Bun.
To add, edge functions (powered by deno) are one of the bigger pain points of supabase. At least that’s my own practical experience and the experience of quite a few others on their github (discussions and issues).
In my current project, I started of optimistically (“Should be doable, they say you feel right at home coming from nodejs!”), tried rewriting some existing nodejs code and use edge functions just like your average nodejs powered serverless functions.
But in the end, things just didn’t work out:
deno’s crypto module just wasn’t up to scratch yet re nodejs compatibility (for my rather humble needs)
supabase uses --no-npm flag re its use of “deno deploy runtime”, which means node: specifiers for imports aren’t supported
the fact that unlike for serverless functions, which update their runtime only once you yourself trigger a new deployment (e.g. nodejs on vercel), “deno deploy runtime” is continously being updated to latest version, which to me still feels pretty strange for production use, considering how serverless functions handle runtime updates.
In the end I changed my architecture yet again, moved most of the code to an expressjs backend and only use edge functions as a kind of “tender” proxy layer with minimal dependencies (mostly just deno and some esm.sh imports; e.g. supabase-js).
Don’t get me wrong, supabase overall is a great thing and they do many things well! I’m still using them going forward.
But edge functions just have the potential for being such a pain point in a project and many have already wished for also having the option for “classic” serverless functions.
Yeah, I really wish they’d gone a different way, it’s rough. I think they went the way they did because of the control they have over the run time environment, the ability to disable so much like writing to disk through flags makes it really easy for them to “trust” the edge functions, but man deno is rough.
The owner of bun is a dick hole, I hope it fades as fast as deno did
Can you provide some context? Googled oven/Jarred Sumner a bit but only got the usual startup VC trash communication and lackluster interviews…
They deleted their tweet (or I can’t find it because I refuse to sign into Twitter on my phone) but when oven first started hiring they were extremely condescending towards the idea of work life balance. It’s a startup perpetuating the idea that startup employees need to cut themselves off from their lives and focus on work for minimal benefits - you know, until it “takes off”.
It caused quite a stir when it was posted, I’m surprised it’s so forgotten now.
Oh I will never forget.
Thanks. Much appreciated.
Why did deno fade?
Deno is still around and is even actively used, you have to use it if you want to write a Supabase edge function, for example. But it’s not used in mainstream development from what I can tell, it just never took off because it’s a very large idea shift from Node that requires a decent sized learning curve to figure out. The benefits are also not enough that it’s worth re-learning how to write server-side JavaScript. If you wanna write server-side JavaScript, Node is good enough that it’s not worth re-learning.
Still though, Deno is fairly obscure from a mainstream development perspective, and that’s what I wish on Bun.
Didn’t deno endup having to incorporate many if the things Node has that they were initially against?
To add, edge functions (powered by deno) are one of the bigger pain points of supabase. At least that’s my own practical experience and the experience of quite a few others on their github (discussions and issues).
In my current project, I started of optimistically (“Should be doable, they say you feel right at home coming from nodejs!”), tried rewriting some existing nodejs code and use edge functions just like your average nodejs powered serverless functions.
But in the end, things just didn’t work out:
cryptomodule just wasn’t up to scratch yet re nodejs compatibility (for my rather humble needs)--no-npmflag re its use of “deno deploy runtime”, which meansnode:specifiers for imports aren’t supportedIn the end I changed my architecture yet again, moved most of the code to an expressjs backend and only use edge functions as a kind of “tender” proxy layer with minimal dependencies (mostly just deno and some
esm.shimports; e.g.supabase-js).Don’t get me wrong, supabase overall is a great thing and they do many things well! I’m still using them going forward. But edge functions just have the potential for being such a pain point in a project and many have already wished for also having the option for “classic” serverless functions.
Yeah, I really wish they’d gone a different way, it’s rough. I think they went the way they did because of the control they have over the run time environment, the ability to disable so much like writing to disk through flags makes it really easy for them to “trust” the edge functions, but man deno is rough.