I recognize that Lemmy is largely anti-capitalist, and anti-work, and would hate this idea. But for people trying to better their position in life, move up in the class system we have, build a new career, or become exceptional in the one they’re in, this sort of advice is actually helpful. It is possible, hell, it’s relatively common, for people to bust their asses and improve their positions in life. Complaining that it’s not fair doesn’t get you anywhere, even though it’s true.
The big problem I have with this advice is that it can’t be scaled up to everbody. If everybody were to follow this advice, we’d have a situation where everbody works 4 extra unpaid hours and nobody stands out. Advice which becomes worse the more people take it. Not good.
Secondly, working more hours might decrease your efficiency in the long run, leading you to finishing less work than if you took the time to rest. If reduces your efficiency by just 10%, you’d already produce less value. While it’s unlikely to get that far by just 4 extra hours, you don’t get the full 26 extra days of productivity.
And if everybody were to follow this advice, always trying to work more than everybody else in order to stand out, we’d soon reach a point where people would produce less.
The advice is basically actively harmful to society.
Usually in this context the “work” part is learning new job skills, preparing plans, networking, and that sort of stuff. It could be actual work for your career, like preparing sales presentations for a sales person, or planning a big coding project for an engineering lead, but it could also be time spent educating yourself and building skills needed to get ahead. Everyone here gets so hung up on the people who were born privileged that they completely overlook the people who have actually worked their asses off to build a better life for themselves and their families.
In the context of “work” being further training or working towards credentials, ie working through community college or certification in your line of work, sure, but I don’t think that’s what this guy is actually saying
This is completely untrue. Sure, you’re not going to get ahead by just blindly working at the same tasks, but moving up in the world requires tons of work. Yes, it also requires connections, but you build those connections by establishing a reputation as someone who’s smart, and hard working.
In companies, people play politics to get ahead, and they try to look good rather then be good.[sic]
Some people do, yes. That doesn’t mean it’s the only way. I know many people who have worked their way up from the bottom with diligence and effort, becoming exceptional in their careers. None of them were privileged or connected when they started.
I agree you have a better chance if you work hard, but that feeling of working hard for your masters approval is just so disgusting to me.
You work hard, you do your best, and you still only have a small chance of getting what you want. So many people get nothing since only a few get promoted. So now you are competing like a circus animal for peanuts, hoping your owner will appriciate your efforts.
And even if you get lucky and get noticed, and you do get that new job with nicer title and money, you will have to continue to work even harder because now you have even more status to uphold in the eyes of your peers. Enjoy the never ending stress in your life.
I suppose it all comes down to perspective. I take pride in the work I do, I always have. I get satisfaction for a job well done. I enjoy making people happy with the results I produce, or looking at something I’ve created and knowing that I put my best effort into it. I’ve had this attitude for as long as I can remember, but it is always a conscious choice. There are intangible benefits to hard work that are gratifying, and of course if you keep at it for long enough, tangible benefits usually follow.
If you’re only concerned that you’re making your boss more money than you’re making for yourself then you’re going to have a miserable life. Someone will always be above us, regardless of how high we climb.
People who do this are useless. They burn out and can’t do their regular jobs, and boring people with no life aren’t useful in any sort of position that requires you to think because they’ve never had the time or bandwidth to learn how.
Source: started going down this road, realized it was counterproductive, and now avoid hiring people like this.
Most places I’ve worked, people would just wonder why you were so inefficient that you needed the extra time to do your job. Like, yeah everyone else does this shit in 40 hours, but this guy keeps showing up on Saturday, so he’s either fucking around during the week or he’s bad at his job. Anywhere that would think it was a good thing wasn’t the kind of place you wanted to move up, it was the kind you tried to leave as soon as you could. Because they were run by the kind of morons who think the appearance of working harder was more valuable than actually doing something useful.
Early in my career, I picked up as much overtime as I could at the hospital. I worked 13 days in a row with three of the those days being 12 hour shifts. My coworkers informed that I was a real bitch after day 7 and it would be better for all of us if I didn’t work more than seven days in a row.
I took their words to heart. There’s working hard to get ahead and then there is killing yourself and making everyone around you miserable.
You hospital workers have insane schedules! All of you! I’ve heard of resident doctors working 36 hour shifts. How do they even function?
I have a friend who is a nurse and he takes all the worst shifts because they pay the best. He doesn’t have a family, so it only impacts him, and he’s living a FIRE lifestyle (which he’s hella good at). But he lost a ton of weight and was as white as a vampire last time I saw him because he never sees the sun. That’s taking it a bit too far IMO. But I’m sure he’ll be the one laughing when he retires with a paid off house and no debt in a few years.
Well with the wealth gap inequity and the notion of meritocracy having been proven a farce for the past couple generations…. This advice is utter bullshit.
I would say that for someone who is willing to work multiple full time jobs and choose to “live to work” they could potentially save up enough money to send back to help their family in a second or third world country.
Nobody’s talking about becoming wealthy, we’re talking about bettering your position in life. But you seem pretty sold on exerting the least possible effort and remaining bitter with the results, so have it, I guess.
I recognize that Lemmy is largely anti-capitalist, and anti-work, and would hate this idea. But for people trying to better their position in life, move up in the class system we have, build a new career, or become exceptional in the one they’re in, this sort of advice is actually helpful. It is possible, hell, it’s relatively common, for people to bust their asses and improve their positions in life. Complaining that it’s not fair doesn’t get you anywhere, even though it’s true.
The big problem I have with this advice is that it can’t be scaled up to everbody. If everybody were to follow this advice, we’d have a situation where everbody works 4 extra unpaid hours and nobody stands out. Advice which becomes worse the more people take it. Not good.
Secondly, working more hours might decrease your efficiency in the long run, leading you to finishing less work than if you took the time to rest. If reduces your efficiency by just 10%, you’d already produce less value. While it’s unlikely to get that far by just 4 extra hours, you don’t get the full 26 extra days of productivity.
And if everybody were to follow this advice, always trying to work more than everybody else in order to stand out, we’d soon reach a point where people would produce less.
The advice is basically actively harmful to society.
Usually in this context the “work” part is learning new job skills, preparing plans, networking, and that sort of stuff. It could be actual work for your career, like preparing sales presentations for a sales person, or planning a big coding project for an engineering lead, but it could also be time spent educating yourself and building skills needed to get ahead. Everyone here gets so hung up on the people who were born privileged that they completely overlook the people who have actually worked their asses off to build a better life for themselves and their families.
In the context of “work” being further training or working towards credentials, ie working through community college or certification in your line of work, sure, but I don’t think that’s what this guy is actually saying
You don’t move up with hard work, you move up with connections and doing favors for the right people.
In companies, people play politics to get ahead, and they try to look good rather then be good.
It’s partly why I went into consulting so I could make decent money without having to be involved in the bullshit.
This is completely untrue. Sure, you’re not going to get ahead by just blindly working at the same tasks, but moving up in the world requires tons of work. Yes, it also requires connections, but you build those connections by establishing a reputation as someone who’s smart, and hard working.
Some people do, yes. That doesn’t mean it’s the only way. I know many people who have worked their way up from the bottom with diligence and effort, becoming exceptional in their careers. None of them were privileged or connected when they started.
Meritocracy is not a real thing in our society. It’s been proven time and again.
K
I agree you have a better chance if you work hard, but that feeling of working hard for your masters approval is just so disgusting to me.
You work hard, you do your best, and you still only have a small chance of getting what you want. So many people get nothing since only a few get promoted. So now you are competing like a circus animal for peanuts, hoping your owner will appriciate your efforts.
And even if you get lucky and get noticed, and you do get that new job with nicer title and money, you will have to continue to work even harder because now you have even more status to uphold in the eyes of your peers. Enjoy the never ending stress in your life.
I suppose it all comes down to perspective. I take pride in the work I do, I always have. I get satisfaction for a job well done. I enjoy making people happy with the results I produce, or looking at something I’ve created and knowing that I put my best effort into it. I’ve had this attitude for as long as I can remember, but it is always a conscious choice. There are intangible benefits to hard work that are gratifying, and of course if you keep at it for long enough, tangible benefits usually follow.
If you’re only concerned that you’re making your boss more money than you’re making for yourself then you’re going to have a miserable life. Someone will always be above us, regardless of how high we climb.
People who do this are useless. They burn out and can’t do their regular jobs, and boring people with no life aren’t useful in any sort of position that requires you to think because they’ve never had the time or bandwidth to learn how.
Source: started going down this road, realized it was counterproductive, and now avoid hiring people like this.
Most places I’ve worked, people would just wonder why you were so inefficient that you needed the extra time to do your job. Like, yeah everyone else does this shit in 40 hours, but this guy keeps showing up on Saturday, so he’s either fucking around during the week or he’s bad at his job. Anywhere that would think it was a good thing wasn’t the kind of place you wanted to move up, it was the kind you tried to leave as soon as you could. Because they were run by the kind of morons who think the appearance of working harder was more valuable than actually doing something useful.
Early in my career, I picked up as much overtime as I could at the hospital. I worked 13 days in a row with three of the those days being 12 hour shifts. My coworkers informed that I was a real bitch after day 7 and it would be better for all of us if I didn’t work more than seven days in a row.
I took their words to heart. There’s working hard to get ahead and then there is killing yourself and making everyone around you miserable.
You hospital workers have insane schedules! All of you! I’ve heard of resident doctors working 36 hour shifts. How do they even function?
I have a friend who is a nurse and he takes all the worst shifts because they pay the best. He doesn’t have a family, so it only impacts him, and he’s living a FIRE lifestyle (which he’s hella good at). But he lost a ton of weight and was as white as a vampire last time I saw him because he never sees the sun. That’s taking it a bit too far IMO. But I’m sure he’ll be the one laughing when he retires with a paid off house and no debt in a few years.
Well with the wealth gap inequity and the notion of meritocracy having been proven a farce for the past couple generations…. This advice is utter bullshit.
I would say that for someone who is willing to work multiple full time jobs and choose to “live to work” they could potentially save up enough money to send back to help their family in a second or third world country.
Nobody’s talking about becoming wealthy, we’re talking about bettering your position in life. But you seem pretty sold on exerting the least possible effort and remaining bitter with the results, so have it, I guess.