If you pick a base character then the prime gets removed as well, the better version cant exist without the base version, however if you remove a prime version then the base character can still exist. My personal pick would be Valkyr due to how [IMO] useless she seems
Octavia IS broken. Just the mere fact that she has an infinitely recastable 0 drawback invisibility makes her broken as in wf, invisibility might as well be invincibility… QoL doesn’t matter if she can be invisible the whole game and pump out literally unlimited damage while staying in 1 spot, pressing 1, 2 and 3 every 40 seconds…
Oh yeah, infinite 0 drawback invisibility like Ivara, Ash, Loki, lol. Invisibility is useful, but make no mistake that it’s not invincibility which frames also have like Revenant, Valkyr, also Loki again, and other frames who have practical invincibility like Zephyr who can just float away from her only danger, melee enemies.
Now, obviously, other frames don’t have recastable invisibility but that’s QoL which proves my point. Enemies don’t detect you immediately the moment you leave invisibility, so you can chain it on any frame such that you’re never actually detected. It’s a matter of QoL preference, and most people prefer a single button press every X seconds (or once in the case of Ivara, lol) in contrast to Octavia’s crouch spam.
As for her scaling damage, it’s slow and relies on enemies targeting her mallet. A weapon will be faster at any level if you know how to mod it well, and any frame I’ve mentioned in this comment is completely capable of standing in one spot, though Valkyr would certainly prefer to run around and murder enemies.
The amount of button presses a frame requires is not indicative of their power level. I can kill everything in a mission with 2 button presses using Revenant’s 2 and 4 for most missions, maybe the occasional 3rd if I need Roar at higher levels. That doesn’t mean it’s quick, and that doesn’t mean it’s strong. I’m not saying Octavia is weak, but she’s not broken, at least not anymore so than the rest of the game (which I would agree is broken in general, lol).
Yeah Octavia is strong but she’s my last choice for a stealth frame lol. It’s clunky to use and her only good way to stay alive. I always go to Loki if I need stealth
Idk about ash and loki (never used them), but Ivara has to use silenced weapons, cannot sprint or bullet jump in her invisibility, so I wouldn’t call it 0 drawback, also it’s a channeled ability, constantly using energy, instead of octavia’s press once and free invis…
Octavia’s damage scaling could be slow in the regular starchart, but in steel path or sp circuit? 1 or 2 shots and all the enemies in a 30 meter radius are dead… That’s with just 200% strength mind you.
Also, the button press analogy is kinda wrong, because with it frames like Protea, which have to constantly re-cast 3 abilities (her 1 for shields, her 2 for damage and her 3 for support) end up looking like low tier trash, which really isn’t the case (total bias in the example, Protea main). And with it, frames like yereli, who can just press 2 once at the start of the game and do nothing else end up as SS+ tier god frames…
Also, yes I do agree about the rest of the game being more broken than octavia, ffs have you seen the feralx one-hit an archon? I have…
Silencing weapons is easy and only requires a mod slot that is not needed for other things on a lot of weapons. The only thing Ivara needs is movement speed (or rather parkour velocity for rolling), which she can now get from yellow archon shards. Her invisibility lasts so long that it doesn’t manner that it’s a channeled ability, it will never run out as long as you haven’t completely dropped your energy economy into the gutter. It’s a single button press, as opposed to Octavia’s press to enable crouch-spam for invisibility.
That’s still slow. Waiting for the enemy to shoot is slow. I’m well aware how quickly it can kill, weapons easily do it faster if you know what you’re doing.
That was my point. It is wrong, and you were the one talking about button presses first saying all she needs to do is press her abilities to win. That’s true of a lot of frames, and every frame can be summarized as ‘press buttons to win’ if we’re being extremely reductive.
Well yeah, but that’s why Octavia isn’t an issue and isn’t something to be removed. At least, not before a dozen other things.