Privacy reasons. When a comment is “deleted” on Lemmy, the comment is actually only hidden to all except instance administrators. The comment remains on the post and continues to display the poster’s username. kbin is also not a beacon of privacy, but it at least removes deleted comments from threads. This is also why I try to interact more on kbin magazines than Lemmy communities.
kbin has a sweet community search tool that not only searches kbin magazines, but also Lemmy communities and even Mastodon groups. This means you can easily find communities all across the #Fediverse for any of your interests.
kbin has a much nicer/more modern UI. It’s got some quirks, but it’s easier to read and navigate than Lemmy by default.
Customization options! Lemmy has themes, which is cool, but kbin has themes and lots of fun toggles to change your experience.
Last but certainly not least, Lemmy devs have a pretty shit stance on human rights. (See here: https://mstdn.social/@feditips/106835057054633379). There are communities like #Beehaw, which are super friendly and non-problematic instances separate from the Lemmy devs, but it’s worth noting that instances like Lemmy’s flagship instance and Lemmygrad are run by folks with some grossly misguided views.
Bootlickers, of the communist variety. Not very nuanced people. The type of people who deny the atrocities of Soviet era countries, and some are even dumb enough to support North Korea and the current regimes of China and Russia. Some are from troll farms sponsored by those countries.
Thank you. That is cause for abandoning Lemmy entirely, for reasons of principle.
Although, ironicall, I don’t really see it will make much difference as long as Lemmy is still widely federated.
I find it extraordinarily difficult to identify with boycotting a product for its creator’s beliefs, considering the majority of consumer products are directly produced through unethical practices. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, after all. It’s about as ridiculous as boycotting Mars because they de-sexified their M&M mascott.
It’s just an untenable standard, and from what I can see there’s nothing intrinsic about the way lemmy functions that can be tied to those beliefs/impacts your own ability to distance from them. I think this is just noise.
as in, does clicking already count as interaction or would you need to comment or vote?
if it’s just viewing the content, then this might be done using a simple userScript as Kbin already remembers which threads you’ve viewed on the homepage.
for me any of the up/downvote, click in to view, or boost counts.
I’m a scroller, but, like, if i see a joke in https://lemmy.world/c/dadjokes then i can chuckle and give it an upvote but i dont have to click in and load the thread fully. But the next time i load the page id lke to not have to scroll past that same thread to see new stuff.
If i downvote something id like to not see it again on the next load. If i open a thread and read the comment posts, i dont need to see that thread again on tne next load.
That sort of thing.
It does have some downsides in that finding threads i /sort-of/ remember and want to check again is harder, but i’m used to that.
Maybe? It would depend on the duties imposed on a third party re the GDPR. If your host instance removes your data and a different instance doesn’t, do they have a duty to do so? Do you have to make the request of each instance with a copy?
Unknown, but they at least believe that they’re covered by an exception:
“As a library, the Internet Archive has, in the words of the GDPR, a “legitimate interest” in building collections, providing permanent public access, and maintaining archival integrity.”
Whether they’ve had that tested in court I do not know.
Personally I haven’t settled in on anything yet. I have accounts on several different KBin instances, a couple Lemmy instances, and Beehaw (which I guess is also a Lemmy instance)
Currently for me it’s between Beehaw and Kbin. I like I can use either account to interact with either so at the end of the day it really doesn’t matter. Kbin looks MUCH nicer on the phone, but I like Beehaw’s moderation, broad-topic communities, etc. Alone, Beehaw would be too restrictive. Combined with Kbin and a couple Lemmy communities, eventually it’s going to just be a matter of using your favorite username@whatever and deciding which front-end you prefer. Beehaw is a little better for people that want to avoid porn and stuff though.
If one platform begins developing much faster than the other, switch! Have a few accounts subscribed to all your favorite communities so they’re all locked and loaded and ready to use.
kbin has a sweet community search tool that not only searches kbin magazines, but also Lemmy communities and even Mastodon groups. This means you can easily find communities all across the #Fediverse for any of your interests.
This convinced me to switch to kbin from lemmy. Looks like it has a better “sort-by-hot” functionality too far as I can tell.
The nice thing is, I can always switch back, no cost to me
Just FYI, while I do not disagree with you, the sort-by-hot ordering is bugged in the current lemmy version, which causes threads not to “cool off”. It will be fixed with the next update (fix is already done, just not shipped yet).
So it’s true, then, that lemmy doesn’t have a community search tool? I still feel like I have to be misunderstanding somehow. It has to have a search function. How else is it supposed to federate to anything? I know people successfully search for kbin mags over there. How else would it even find its own communities? It can’t just be a big ass list, it would be too long to be usable.
Regarding 5., I mean, you pointed out your way around that yourself. Create your account elsewhere. Lemmy is FOSS. If the devs do act shitty, one can fork their stuff and everyone can put it on their instances anyway.
While I don’t want to defend them, because I did not investigate it further, I do have to say that I didn’t see anything weird on their profiles. Moreover, I totally get that they don’t really want to moderate their instances more than they absolutely have to. As in “if it’s not illegal, I don’t care.”
It creates a shitton of work and moral dilemmas, plus you have do deal with bad shit every single day.
I see no point in doing so when it’s FOSS. Audacity devs acted in bad faith and their stuff got forked. If anything, that’s a bigger middle finger to them than simply not using the software anymore.
So no, I don’t think it’s wrong to avoid their software, but pointless.
As a “product” I like how Lemmy works and would like to continue using it. That doesn’t mean I support or defend the devs. A “hate the artist, not the art” situation I’m still wrestling with, personally.
I would hope, in the event this whole debacle starts to impact the development and features of Lemmy, that my home instance will move to a fork. If not, I can delete the account and move to kbin.
I strongly disagree with reason 3 as finding the list of magazines that I’m subscribed to is hidden in settings, while on Reddit it’s easy to access on the top bar. My home feed is doesn’t default to the magazines I’m subscribed to, I have to manually set it on a bar that doesn’t even seem like a sort button.
About the human rights thing, I had read about it somewhere, but didn’t know what it really was about until now, so thanks for posting that link.
But now that I have read it, I’m like… really, that’s it?
It seems like one user is complaining because their understanding of free speech is not the same as the Lemmy devs. I see nothing there that would even hint that those devs agree with those posts on their instance. And while I firmly disagree with the content of those posts, I wonder what happened here with the “I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it” approach that typically make free speech successful?
I also didn’t know that the Kbin creator started Kbin because of that too (another comment on this post mentions it). I have nothing against Kbin, but it sounds like a pretty frivolous reason to start an entire new software project… That being said, it’s great that it exists, of course, options are good.
For me:
Privacy reasons. When a comment is “deleted” on Lemmy, the comment is actually only hidden to all except instance administrators. The comment remains on the post and continues to display the poster’s username. kbin is also not a beacon of privacy, but it at least removes deleted comments from threads. This is also why I try to interact more on kbin magazines than Lemmy communities.
kbin has a sweet community search tool that not only searches kbin magazines, but also Lemmy communities and even Mastodon groups. This means you can easily find communities all across the #Fediverse for any of your interests.
kbin has a much nicer/more modern UI. It’s got some quirks, but it’s easier to read and navigate than Lemmy by default.
Customization options! Lemmy has themes, which is cool, but kbin has themes and lots of fun toggles to change your experience.
Last but certainly not least, Lemmy devs have a pretty shit stance on human rights. (See here: https://mstdn.social/@feditips/106835057054633379). There are communities like #Beehaw, which are super friendly and non-problematic instances separate from the Lemmy devs, but it’s worth noting that instances like Lemmy’s flagship instance and Lemmygrad are run by folks with some grossly misguided views.
More info on Lemmy devs being tankies who deny human rights violations: https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/47012/-/comment/196579
This is what did it for me. After 3 days of finally getting the hang of Lemmy and figuring shit out I learned about the devs and their beliefs.
I don’t want to support humans like that and so I was very grateful to swap to kbin and continue to deepen my learnings of the Fediverse.
Is it all /several of the devs? Or that one guy who said he was a dev?
All of the main devs
what is a tankie?
An apologist for communist dictatorships, who turn a blind eye to - or even justify - their human rights violations.
I didn’t realise there was a word for it! Thanks!
Bootlickers, of the communist variety. Not very nuanced people. The type of people who deny the atrocities of Soviet era countries, and some are even dumb enough to support North Korea and the current regimes of China and Russia. Some are from troll farms sponsored by those countries.
Could you please clarify: are you tailking about a particular Lemmy instance, or the entire Lemmy software product?
the entire Lemmy software product
Thank you. That is cause for abandoning Lemmy entirely, for reasons of principle.
Although, ironicall, I don’t really see it will make much difference as long as Lemmy is still widely federated.
Yeah, just feels weird using a service made by people with those views.
I find it extraordinarily difficult to identify with boycotting a product for its creator’s beliefs, considering the majority of consumer products are directly produced through unethical practices. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, after all. It’s about as ridiculous as boycotting Mars because they de-sexified their M&M mascott.
It’s just an untenable standard, and from what I can see there’s nothing intrinsic about the way lemmy functions that can be tied to those beliefs/impacts your own ability to distance from them. I think this is just noise.
When I have a choice between a platform developed by tankies and one that’s not… I’m gonna choose the one that’s not.
I keep trying to upvote this and keep getting an error. So consider this an upvote and agreement.
@ADHDefy mostly #3 for me. I am looking forward to the “hide interacted with threads” functionality to come to kbin. I’m patient though.
Edited to note - i agree with the other points too.
@Facni
How far does “interacted with” go for you?
as in, does clicking already count as interaction or would you need to comment or vote?
if it’s just viewing the content, then this might be done using a simple userScript as Kbin already remembers which threads you’ve viewed on the homepage.
@TGRush
for me any of the up/downvote, click in to view, or boost counts.
I’m a scroller, but, like, if i see a joke in https://lemmy.world/c/dadjokes then i can chuckle and give it an upvote but i dont have to click in and load the thread fully. But the next time i load the page id lke to not have to scroll past that same thread to see new stuff.
If i downvote something id like to not see it again on the next load. If i open a thread and read the comment posts, i dont need to see that thread again on tne next load.
That sort of thing.
It does have some downsides in that finding threads i /sort-of/ remember and want to check again is harder, but i’m used to that.
@Facni @ADHDefy
Although, by nature of the federation, anything add and then deleted may already be replicated to other instances.
Some of whom could instead show/retain a copy of it.
Basically assume that everything will be available and associated with you forever. Even more so than usual.
Just made me realize that this causes a problem with GDPR. Will that cause issues in the future for the Fediverse?
That’s an interesting thought
Maybe? It would depend on the duties imposed on a third party re the GDPR. If your host instance removes your data and a different instance doesn’t, do they have a duty to do so? Do you have to make the request of each instance with a copy?
Is the Wayback machine (https://archive.org/web/) required to remove content it’s archived to be compliant with GDPR?
Unknown, but they at least believe that they’re covered by an exception:
“As a library, the Internet Archive has, in the words of the GDPR, a “legitimate interest” in building collections, providing permanent public access, and maintaining archival integrity.”
Whether they’ve had that tested in court I do not know.
Could be. Sounds like it to me.
Personally I haven’t settled in on anything yet. I have accounts on several different KBin instances, a couple Lemmy instances, and Beehaw (which I guess is also a Lemmy instance)
Currently for me it’s between Beehaw and Kbin. I like I can use either account to interact with either so at the end of the day it really doesn’t matter. Kbin looks MUCH nicer on the phone, but I like Beehaw’s moderation, broad-topic communities, etc. Alone, Beehaw would be too restrictive. Combined with Kbin and a couple Lemmy communities, eventually it’s going to just be a matter of using your favorite username@whatever and deciding which front-end you prefer. Beehaw is a little better for people that want to avoid porn and stuff though.
If one platform begins developing much faster than the other, switch! Have a few accounts subscribed to all your favorite communities so they’re all locked and loaded and ready to use.
This convinced me to switch to kbin from lemmy. Looks like it has a better “sort-by-hot” functionality too far as I can tell.
The nice thing is, I can always switch back, no cost to me
Just FYI, while I do not disagree with you, the sort-by-hot ordering is bugged in the current lemmy version, which causes threads not to “cool off”. It will be fixed with the next update (fix is already done, just not shipped yet).
So it’s true, then, that lemmy doesn’t have a community search tool? I still feel like I have to be misunderstanding somehow. It has to have a search function. How else is it supposed to federate to anything? I know people successfully search for kbin mags over there. How else would it even find its own communities? It can’t just be a big ass list, it would be too long to be usable.
Regarding 5., I mean, you pointed out your way around that yourself. Create your account elsewhere. Lemmy is FOSS. If the devs do act shitty, one can fork their stuff and everyone can put it on their instances anyway.
While I don’t want to defend them, because I did not investigate it further, I do have to say that I didn’t see anything weird on their profiles. Moreover, I totally get that they don’t really want to moderate their instances more than they absolutely have to. As in “if it’s not illegal, I don’t care.”
It creates a shitton of work and moral dilemmas, plus you have do deal with bad shit every single day.
Is there something wrong with choosing to avoid someone’s software because the developers are tankies, in your opinion?
I see no point in doing so when it’s FOSS. Audacity devs acted in bad faith and their stuff got forked. If anything, that’s a bigger middle finger to them than simply not using the software anymore.
So no, I don’t think it’s wrong to avoid their software, but pointless.
I agree with you here.
As a “product” I like how Lemmy works and would like to continue using it. That doesn’t mean I support or defend the devs. A “hate the artist, not the art” situation I’m still wrestling with, personally.
I would hope, in the event this whole debacle starts to impact the development and features of Lemmy, that my home instance will move to a fork. If not, I can delete the account and move to kbin.
#5 is also pretty weak. It’s just a link to a post where someone is complaining that the admins won’t remove some free speech that they disagree with.
You can’t just call people bigots because they are enforcing certain rules. The admins aren’t the ones posting the content.
I strongly disagree with reason 3 as finding the list of magazines that I’m subscribed to is hidden in settings, while on Reddit it’s easy to access on the top bar. My home feed is doesn’t default to the magazines I’m subscribed to, I have to manually set it on a bar that doesn’t even seem like a sort button.
About the human rights thing, I had read about it somewhere, but didn’t know what it really was about until now, so thanks for posting that link.
But now that I have read it, I’m like… really, that’s it?
It seems like one user is complaining because their understanding of free speech is not the same as the Lemmy devs. I see nothing there that would even hint that those devs agree with those posts on their instance. And while I firmly disagree with the content of those posts, I wonder what happened here with the “I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it” approach that typically make free speech successful?
I also didn’t know that the Kbin creator started Kbin because of that too (another comment on this post mentions it). I have nothing against Kbin, but it sounds like a pretty frivolous reason to start an entire new software project… That being said, it’s great that it exists, of course, options are good.
Surely kbin’s federation with Lemmy means thus simply isn’t the case?
Not cool, however, I’ll gladly use kbin when it has an app like gerboa that makes it much more easy to navigate.
I’m adding your comment to @BestOf and/or https://kbin.social/m/BestOf! Thanks for explaining the benefits of kbin!