Have you ever fixed an older combustion engine vehicle? You watch a youtube video and a few hours later, you can, in most cases, at least get the car to a state so you can drive it to a mechanic. On modern combustion engine vehicles this is still possible, although a bit more difficult.
Uhhh, EVs? No way you’re fixing anything in there.
On an EV, if anything happens to the motor or battery that they need work, you’ve done something so extraordinarily bad that you’ve somehow physically damaged them. Under normal use, they shouldn’t need maintenance due to the much much less strain put on the motor without the constant explosions and multitude of fluids running through it. It’s literally just a motor and a few electronics hooked up to a battery. There’s nothing that special about it, and it’s been proven to be a pretty reliable setup. Beyond that, they are a normal vehicle with normal replacement parts. Brakes, shocks, suspension bushings…all the same as every other vehicle out there.
What sucks is those components are wrapped together with silicon valley (wannabe) software that’s so rushed and poorly planned (except the monetization!) that minor sensor failures take down the whole system. At least it looks pretty.
A few decades of standards and convergence I hope will result in some extremely reliable cars and lots of aftermarket parts.
I’ve been an Automotive Technician for a couple decades now and I can safely say combustion engines have way more parts that fail and if you can use a youtube video to diagnose your ICE (very rarely is this possible) then you’re smart enough to do the same with an EV.
There is way less parts on an EV and they are way easier to fix.
Most EV components you’d need to replace are the same as in an ICE. There’s way less that needs to be done on an EV. The expensive bit has an 8 year warranty on most EVs including Tesla.
You can change brakes, suspension, lights, pretty much everything without software locks. Only drive train is locked, which rarely fails and it does so progressively.
You can change brakes, suspension, lights, pretty much everything without software locks. Only drive train is locked, which rarely fails and it does so progressively.
Also you can enter service mode now and tell it to reflash the whole car. Need a new steering rack or camera for example? Swap the part, hit reflash and the car flashes the correct vin, coding and software into the part and offers calibration afterwards.
Also built in scantool to read fault codes and do basic diag. More advanced diag needs Tesla Toolbox. Costs $165 for a day of access/$500 per month, but is possible with an ethernet cable and doesn’t need a $1800 SAE J2534 box.
In an ICE you can have an air/fuel/electrical issue, and the entire system is designed to overcome the inherent design flaws of the technology, thus making it convoluted and difficult to understand. Not only can an EM be explained and taught far easier than a full ICE breakdown, but you can literally build one as an Elementary school science project with some copper wire, batteries, and magnets. The technology has only one point of failure as opposed to three. If it doesn’t work, electricity is the ONLY possible reason.
EM’s have a significantly smaller chance of failure due to the simplicity of the design with fewer moving parts, so while current EM’s aren’t really built to be repaired by their operators, one that’s designed to be would be incredibly simple for the layman to understand and repair had they the knowledge and tools available. The technology itself isn’t the issue, in fact, I’d argue the average random could learn how to repair an EM in much less time than an ICE, we just don’t build them that way currently (like how we don’t build modern ICE’s to be repaired by their drivers.)
Ok. So do you think EV makers make it easy to repair them? Because they sure as hell don’t. On paper you can, I agree with that. But they lock the software and hardware in bizzare ways, so that you have to go to a certified mechanic.
Which is exactly what modern cars are like to fix, what’s your point? I specifically mentioned how we don’t design them to be repaired by the owner in my comment.
Jesus, people really don’t read on this website. Neither of these responses seemed to have noticed that you specifically covered their respective points in your comment.
It really feels like the dumbest people of reddit came over, the brainless reactionaries that don’t even read but just shout their feelings as if anything that doesn’t 100% agree with them HAS to be against them.
There’s no room for nuance here, Tildes is better for actual conversation I think, at this point. It’s not the fediverse but oh well, at least people can read there.
That all sounds very impressive, rocket m00se. Until you get down to the tricky business of actually trying to identify and replaced a single failed cell in a massive factory-sealed battery array. It is NOT easy and there are many traps placed in your way on purpose. I would rather work on a broken ICE vehicle any day of the week.
It’s almost like I specifically mentioned that modern vehicles (no matter the powerplant) aren’t designed to be fixed by the person driving it, and are created so that special tools/technicians are needed.
I stand by my point, EM’s are far simpler and if they were designed like old cars with the owner in mind, they’d be dead simple for someone with next to zero knowledge to troubleshoot compared to the over engineered mess that internal combustion ended up as.
Yeah, there are so many moving parts on an ICE that an EV just doesn’t need at all.
The village mechanic will still be able to do brakes and suspension work which are the most common types of issues unless you drive a particularly unreliable car.
Huh? Charge it before that happens? Exactly like you’d get gas before you run out of it, only that you can do that at home and don’t need a gas station
I had my whole windshield crack after getting hit by a chunk of asphalt from a dump truck and I was able to get it replaced within 3 days. It’s just a windshield. Brakes are similar, though the rotors may need some extra love on account of not getting used as much. They can still be done at a normal shop, though. For most other things shy of the battery or motors, they’ll send someone out and do the repairs in your driveway.
I’m hiking across Ontario. It will never stop baffling me seeing the most rural houses imaginable, middle of nowhere. What’s in the driveway? Tesla.
What you gonna do if it breaks down!? Walk!?
Edit: I’m learning a lot about cars in this thread :D Thanks for the feedback all!
I mean what do you do if your Jeep or Toyota breaks down!? Walk!?
Have you ever fixed an older combustion engine vehicle? You watch a youtube video and a few hours later, you can, in most cases, at least get the car to a state so you can drive it to a mechanic. On modern combustion engine vehicles this is still possible, although a bit more difficult.
Uhhh, EVs? No way you’re fixing anything in there.
On an EV, if anything happens to the motor or battery that they need work, you’ve done something so extraordinarily bad that you’ve somehow physically damaged them. Under normal use, they shouldn’t need maintenance due to the much much less strain put on the motor without the constant explosions and multitude of fluids running through it. It’s literally just a motor and a few electronics hooked up to a battery. There’s nothing that special about it, and it’s been proven to be a pretty reliable setup. Beyond that, they are a normal vehicle with normal replacement parts. Brakes, shocks, suspension bushings…all the same as every other vehicle out there.
You’re worried about literally nothing…
What sucks is those components are wrapped together with silicon valley (wannabe) software that’s so rushed and poorly planned (except the monetization!) that minor sensor failures take down the whole system. At least it looks pretty.
A few decades of standards and convergence I hope will result in some extremely reliable cars and lots of aftermarket parts.
I’ve been an Automotive Technician for a couple decades now and I can safely say combustion engines have way more parts that fail and if you can use a youtube video to diagnose your ICE (very rarely is this possible) then you’re smart enough to do the same with an EV.
There is way less parts on an EV and they are way easier to fix.
Most EV components you’d need to replace are the same as in an ICE. There’s way less that needs to be done on an EV. The expensive bit has an 8 year warranty on most EVs including Tesla.
Tesla cars can only be serviced by Tesla mechanics with Tesla parts, and they have software locks.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/tesla-hit-with-right-repair-antitrust-class-actions-2023-03-15/
Bigger parts sure, but I wouldn’t trust a village mechanic with an engine job either.
You can change brakes, suspension, lights, pretty much everything without software locks. Only drive train is locked, which rarely fails and it does so progressively.
Also you can enter service mode now and tell it to reflash the whole car. Need a new steering rack or camera for example? Swap the part, hit reflash and the car flashes the correct vin, coding and software into the part and offers calibration afterwards.
Also built in scantool to read fault codes and do basic diag. More advanced diag needs Tesla Toolbox. Costs $165 for a day of access/$500 per month, but is possible with an ethernet cable and doesn’t need a $1800 SAE J2534 box.
Cool, TIL!
In an ICE you can have an air/fuel/electrical issue, and the entire system is designed to overcome the inherent design flaws of the technology, thus making it convoluted and difficult to understand. Not only can an EM be explained and taught far easier than a full ICE breakdown, but you can literally build one as an Elementary school science project with some copper wire, batteries, and magnets. The technology has only one point of failure as opposed to three. If it doesn’t work, electricity is the ONLY possible reason.
EM’s have a significantly smaller chance of failure due to the simplicity of the design with fewer moving parts, so while current EM’s aren’t really built to be repaired by their operators, one that’s designed to be would be incredibly simple for the layman to understand and repair had they the knowledge and tools available. The technology itself isn’t the issue, in fact, I’d argue the average random could learn how to repair an EM in much less time than an ICE, we just don’t build them that way currently (like how we don’t build modern ICE’s to be repaired by their drivers.)
Ok. So do you think EV makers make it easy to repair them? Because they sure as hell don’t. On paper you can, I agree with that. But they lock the software and hardware in bizzare ways, so that you have to go to a certified mechanic.
Which is exactly what modern cars are like to fix, what’s your point? I specifically mentioned how we don’t design them to be repaired by the owner in my comment.
Jesus, people really don’t read on this website. Neither of these responses seemed to have noticed that you specifically covered their respective points in your comment.
Fucking do better, Lemmy.
It really feels like the dumbest people of reddit came over, the brainless reactionaries that don’t even read but just shout their feelings as if anything that doesn’t 100% agree with them HAS to be against them.
There’s no room for nuance here, Tildes is better for actual conversation I think, at this point. It’s not the fediverse but oh well, at least people can read there.
That all sounds very impressive, rocket m00se. Until you get down to the tricky business of actually trying to identify and replaced a single failed cell in a massive factory-sealed battery array. It is NOT easy and there are many traps placed in your way on purpose. I would rather work on a broken ICE vehicle any day of the week.
It’s almost like I specifically mentioned that modern vehicles (no matter the powerplant) aren’t designed to be fixed by the person driving it, and are created so that special tools/technicians are needed.
I stand by my point, EM’s are far simpler and if they were designed like old cars with the owner in mind, they’d be dead simple for someone with next to zero knowledge to troubleshoot compared to the over engineered mess that internal combustion ended up as.
Also, in many cases it’s easier to get electricity than gas in remote locations. Saves a lot of annoying refueling trips.
Most villages have a mechanic that’s used to working on the common brands/cars, if you decide to move to a rural location that’s what you buy.
Then again, most electric cars barely require any maintenance.
Yeah, there are so many moving parts on an ICE that an EV just doesn’t need at all.
The village mechanic will still be able to do brakes and suspension work which are the most common types of issues unless you drive a particularly unreliable car.
You bring it to any garage. Where do you bring your tesla? To craigs repair shop? They can hardly fix their own cars
There’s an entire engine missing that doesn’t need to be worked on.
Stuff like brakes and suspension, any generic place will be able to do.
I have literally taken my Tesla to the random repair shop down the street for maintenance. They even know how to handle the electric motors.
Huh? Charge it before that happens? Exactly like you’d get gas before you run out of it, only that you can do that at home and don’t need a gas station
Sure, but what garage do you bring it to? My friend waited 8bor so month for a windscreen replacement.
Anyone can replace the windscreen. It’s not any different on an electric vehicle.
I had my whole windshield crack after getting hit by a chunk of asphalt from a dump truck and I was able to get it replaced within 3 days. It’s just a windshield. Brakes are similar, though the rotors may need some extra love on account of not getting used as much. They can still be done at a normal shop, though. For most other things shy of the battery or motors, they’ll send someone out and do the repairs in your driveway.
I have a Model 3, for context.