I think the kids are deluded and have no idea what they’re missing. Density is hell. Single family homes are expensive because the vast majority of people don’t want to spend the rest of their lives living in apartments.
Maybe 40s-50s for some of them. Maybe never for others, but I think the only way they can idealize apartment living is lack of life experience. City living is hip and fun for young people but it gets old. Maybe we’re dealing with extreme extroverts who can’t bear the quiet of a green suburb, and having private space in a personal vehicle instead of being crammed on the bus or train with the general public.
Maybe I’d be less vocal about it if there wasn’t a loud minority of people - I suspect mostly born after 1990 - who have these opinions largely as a result of lack of other experience. Maybe I’d be less pissed off about it if they stopped moving from huge cities to small ones and fucking up the cost of everything whilst trying to convert everywhere to NYC and Amsterdam.
I’m sick of the Zennial/euro anti-car, ultra pro-urban densification, unopposed bandwagoning online, and I feel compelled to speak up about it.
I’ve lived in a lot more places than most people, with a lot more diversity of experience. I certainly can’t guarantee more experience than any random commenter, but it will be more than the vast majority. I’ve lived in several small towns and cities. Many suburbs. A few large cities. I’ve walked to work, biked to work, taken public transit to work. I’ve driven 10m to work and commuted 2.5h to work with a combination of trains and cars - and everything in between. I’ve regularly been to places where you’re within sight of >20 people at all times, and places that haven’t seen a human in 10 years. The vast majority of people live within 20 miles of where they were born, and less than half of gen Z adults have a driver’s license. I’ve owned over two dozen cars and have a pilots license. I live thousands of miles from where I grew up. I have degrees, certifications, or substantial work experience in 5 different fields. I have several hobbies more substantive than many peoples careers. I know things about stuff.
And also, because many, when pressed, will admit to living in a big city, maybe in Europe, or someplace with fucked, hellish sprawl like LA that’s a victim of a half century of compound growth, or some insane new construction suburb in TX or FL that was designed to enrich a real estate developer at the highest possible profit margin. Either urban hell (from my perspective) or a strawman of hellish sprawl that isn’t very similar to older suburbs and the original “American dream” - not having tried much else.
Edit: in one case I was talking with someone who thought the travel distance to a normal suburban grocery store was 500% the straight line distance due to some comical maze of roads. I have to drive/walk/bike 25% further to my suburban grocery store than its straight line distance, and it’s been the same in the last 4 suburbs I’ve lived in, in radically different places. It tells me that a lot of people don’t know WTF they’re talking about.
So, you’ve lived in a lot of different places and decided a certain type of suburban living is for you, which is cool. It just seems from your earlier comments that you believe anyone with a wide range of experiences would also prefer living in the same way as you do. Also, it seems you are willing to discount discussion out of hand because of your perception of the person on the other side instead of based on the merits of the argument. Doesn’t that all seem a bit silly?
Also, it seems you are willing to discount discussion out of hand because of your perception of the person on the other side instead of based on the merits of the argument.
Well, I mean, yes, but I’m basically trying to say that social media in it’s various forms is full of armchair experts who have massive blind spots but argue passionately, and the pro-urban, “fuck cars” crowd comes off as particularly cranky in this way.
It’s basically people who didn’t get a driver’s license, or couldn’t afford a car, or lived in an urban traffic nightmare like LA trying to invalidate the personal freedom others experienced as a result of car ownership - and I’m certain it’s a generational thing because boomers, Gen X and the older millennials grew up at a time when anyone could own a car, gas was cheap, and it was woven into the independence of early adulthood. You’ll never convince me that it’s not empowering to get 50-100 miles out of your small city and explore an unpopulated place that public transit could not service. It annoys me to no end that people on socal media hate on this without the lived experience to understand it.
I think the kids are deluded and have no idea what they’re missing. Density is hell. Single family homes are expensive because the vast majority of people don’t want to spend the rest of their lives living in apartments.
They will figure it out when they get about to mid-30s in age
Maybe 40s-50s for some of them. Maybe never for others, but I think the only way they can idealize apartment living is lack of life experience. City living is hip and fun for young people but it gets old. Maybe we’re dealing with extreme extroverts who can’t bear the quiet of a green suburb, and having private space in a personal vehicle instead of being crammed on the bus or train with the general public.
Yup, it’s impossible that people have different preferences and experiences than you.
Maybe I’d be less vocal about it if there wasn’t a loud minority of people - I suspect mostly born after 1990 - who have these opinions largely as a result of lack of other experience. Maybe I’d be less pissed off about it if they stopped moving from huge cities to small ones and fucking up the cost of everything whilst trying to convert everywhere to NYC and Amsterdam.
I’m sick of the Zennial/euro anti-car, ultra pro-urban densification, unopposed bandwagoning online, and I feel compelled to speak up about it.
What leads you to believe that they hold these opinions due to a lack of life experience?
I’ve lived in a lot more places than most people, with a lot more diversity of experience. I certainly can’t guarantee more experience than any random commenter, but it will be more than the vast majority. I’ve lived in several small towns and cities. Many suburbs. A few large cities. I’ve walked to work, biked to work, taken public transit to work. I’ve driven 10m to work and commuted 2.5h to work with a combination of trains and cars - and everything in between. I’ve regularly been to places where you’re within sight of >20 people at all times, and places that haven’t seen a human in 10 years. The vast majority of people live within 20 miles of where they were born, and less than half of gen Z adults have a driver’s license. I’ve owned over two dozen cars and have a pilots license. I live thousands of miles from where I grew up. I have degrees, certifications, or substantial work experience in 5 different fields. I have several hobbies more substantive than many peoples careers. I know things about stuff.
And also, because many, when pressed, will admit to living in a big city, maybe in Europe, or someplace with fucked, hellish sprawl like LA that’s a victim of a half century of compound growth, or some insane new construction suburb in TX or FL that was designed to enrich a real estate developer at the highest possible profit margin. Either urban hell (from my perspective) or a strawman of hellish sprawl that isn’t very similar to older suburbs and the original “American dream” - not having tried much else.
Edit: in one case I was talking with someone who thought the travel distance to a normal suburban grocery store was 500% the straight line distance due to some comical maze of roads. I have to drive/walk/bike 25% further to my suburban grocery store than its straight line distance, and it’s been the same in the last 4 suburbs I’ve lived in, in radically different places. It tells me that a lot of people don’t know WTF they’re talking about.
So, you’ve lived in a lot of different places and decided a certain type of suburban living is for you, which is cool. It just seems from your earlier comments that you believe anyone with a wide range of experiences would also prefer living in the same way as you do. Also, it seems you are willing to discount discussion out of hand because of your perception of the person on the other side instead of based on the merits of the argument. Doesn’t that all seem a bit silly?
For sure. All of this is pretty silly.
Well, I mean, yes, but I’m basically trying to say that social media in it’s various forms is full of armchair experts who have massive blind spots but argue passionately, and the pro-urban, “fuck cars” crowd comes off as particularly cranky in this way.
It’s basically people who didn’t get a driver’s license, or couldn’t afford a car, or lived in an urban traffic nightmare like LA trying to invalidate the personal freedom others experienced as a result of car ownership - and I’m certain it’s a generational thing because boomers, Gen X and the older millennials grew up at a time when anyone could own a car, gas was cheap, and it was woven into the independence of early adulthood. You’ll never convince me that it’s not empowering to get 50-100 miles out of your small city and explore an unpopulated place that public transit could not service. It annoys me to no end that people on socal media hate on this without the lived experience to understand it.