maybe hamas shouldn’t have killed hundreds of civilians purely to provoke a response? maybe the Palestinians should leave now? maybe they shouldn’t vote a dead cult like Hamas in as their government?
Yes, Hamas should absolutely not have killed a single Israeli civilian or any civilian period. But none of your maybes justify more killing of civilians in Gaza.
Even if people in Gaza, who are constantly all their lives between a rock and a hard place with no clean water and no future prospects, voted for Hamas, still it does not justify Israel killing civilians.
I never said it ‘justifies’ it. Unless the civilians clear out, it is unfortunately inevitable. The difference is israelies arent going to be using their forces specifically to target civilians, unlike the other lot of animals
You said maybe Palestinians should leave. How would the civilians clear out when Israel has completely put it under siege and will likely shoot anyone leaving?
Also, would that not be a forced exodus of an ethnic group?
It’s not ethical. It’s war. War isn’t like in the movies.
Hitler could have spent the war in an appartment in the middle of Berlin, safe in the knowledge no one would ever dare bomb him. Stalin could have nuked NATO, safe in the knowledge NATO wouldn’t ever retaliate. If we allowed monsters who hide between civilians get away with it, they would inherit the earth. ISIS could tie a few civilians to the top of their tank, and murder us all. The Lord’s Resistance Army could have freely marched into town to procure a few more child sex slaves, because they were protected by the children they had previously abducted.
There are no good guys or bad guys in this conflict. Both sides have stolen land. A third of Israel’s population are ‘arab’ jews. They’ve lived in the region for millenia, and have just as much right to a country as the Palestinians. Let’s not pretend they’d be safe in a Palestinian state or welcomed if they fled to neighbouring countries, given how popular Mein Kampf still is in the region. You’d be exchanging defacto Apartheid for genocide.
And let’s not pretend that the Israelis have always undermined the peace process. For example, it’s no coincidence that Israeli politics shifted to the right after 2000, when Arafat walked away from further negotiations at Camp David, something even the Saudi ambassador described as criminal, and despite the Israeli PM offering far reaching and deeply unpopular concessions. Of course, Israel also helped Hamas’ rise to power, so once again no good guys or bad guys.
It’s a mess and now it’s a messy war.
All we can do is urge both sides to limit civilian casulties, not target them deliberately, but they are inevitable.
the open border to Egypt. What would you do with your family if you were in that situation? Be honest, get out of your armchair, dust off the cheeto crumbs from your fingers and think about it like a normal person.
You’d go. You’d put your family above ideology. If you dont, I really find it hard to sympathise, especially if you were celebrating in the streets in the last few days about a bunch of dead teenagers
One small border crossing (that is not exactly the most open) for over 2 million people into a country that is ideal hostile to Palestinians? Great option. /s
And how exactly is that not ethnic cleansing?
And no, there were not over 2 million Palestinians celebrating in the streets after the terrorist attacks. Get your head out of your ass.
so hamas is a terroist dictatorship. who broke into their neighboors place, slaughtered hundreds of innocents for no reason at all, kidnapped dozens more and threaten to kill them, and these are the guys you think are awesome
I’ve seen this rhetoric before here and I don’t understand the goal. Berating everyone who isn’t sucking Bibi’s dick and calling them terrorist lovers isn’t going to create any good will towards Israel, quite the opposite.
im sorry, ive been called a ‘zionist’ (whatever the fuck that even means), a bootlicker, pro-apartheid for simply giving a fuck about people being murdered yesterday. so forgive me if im gonna call out your bullshit
Perhaps get off the internet and stop involving yourself so much in something that likely doesn’t affect you. You went into the fire and then complained about it.
no, the furious downvotes and rambly angry replies mean a whole bunch of you little murder lovin basement dwellers are actually getting annoyed by my comments, which I can only call a win
In my eyes, yes. I was absolutely a ‘both sides are as bad as each other’ person 3 days ago. Now Its obvious one side is objectively worse and crossed a line that cant be walked back without serious blood and retribution
So if Israel can bomb Gaza for the actions of Hamas, by that logic (which I strongly disagree with), Hamas can also go around bombing Israel because they kill civilians on the fly.
you support terrorism and the slaughtering of innocents. You would be right at home with the protestors in sydney today chanting ‘gas the jews’ (yes, they literally were saying that)
EDIT: so basically you are saying, you are fine with Israel killing millions upon millions of Palestinian people but when it Hamas is doing the exact same thing that’s wrong.
EDIT 2: how can you be “be for both sides”? One side is committing genocide and the other is fighting for their right to live. Hamas was literally created around 1987s to fight back for Palestinians lives.
When peaceful revolution is impossible, violence revolution is inevitable.
maybe hamas shouldn’t have killed hundreds of civilians purely to provoke a response? maybe the Palestinians should leave now? maybe they shouldn’t vote a dead cult like Hamas in as their government?
Yes, Hamas should absolutely not have killed a single Israeli civilian or any civilian period. But none of your maybes justify more killing of civilians in Gaza.
Even if people in Gaza, who are constantly all their lives between a rock and a hard place with no clean water and no future prospects, voted for Hamas, still it does not justify Israel killing civilians.
Yes, I agree completely
I never said it ‘justifies’ it. Unless the civilians clear out, it is unfortunately inevitable. The difference is israelies arent going to be using their forces specifically to target civilians, unlike the other lot of animals
You said maybe Palestinians should leave. How would the civilians clear out when Israel has completely put it under siege and will likely shoot anyone leaving?
Also, would that not be a forced exodus of an ethnic group?
And go where exactly?
who cares where. away. theres an open border. stop pretending they have no choice
There is no open border… not sure where you are getting this from.
Stop pretending you have the first clue about what you’re talking about and educate yourself. Thanks.
great retort genius
Yeah, I’m happy with it.
Likely the poor people who are caught in the middle of this nonsense.
deleted by creator
https://www.google.com/maps/place/31°16’29.1"N+34°14’44.3"E/@31.2747666,34.2430521,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d31.274762!4d34.245627?entry=ttu
LOL
This is the Rafah checkpoint, currently out of order because Israel bombed it. If I recall correctly, they bombed it twice just for good measures.
Before that it wasn’t “open” to refugees if that’s what you are trying to tell these people.
Israel should leave. Palestinians were there first.
https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/hamas-terrorists-murdered-40-babies-including-beheadings-says-report-2fdcCmtBjFvAcCCf5MDwKU
I think your ‘moral high ground’ can go fuck off
Nonsense.
War is war.
If the allies had avoided making any civilian casulties, the nazis would have won the war.
Not even that justifies it /:
It’s not ethical. It’s war. War isn’t like in the movies.
Hitler could have spent the war in an appartment in the middle of Berlin, safe in the knowledge no one would ever dare bomb him. Stalin could have nuked NATO, safe in the knowledge NATO wouldn’t ever retaliate. If we allowed monsters who hide between civilians get away with it, they would inherit the earth. ISIS could tie a few civilians to the top of their tank, and murder us all. The Lord’s Resistance Army could have freely marched into town to procure a few more child sex slaves, because they were protected by the children they had previously abducted.
There are no good guys or bad guys in this conflict. Both sides have stolen land. A third of Israel’s population are ‘arab’ jews. They’ve lived in the region for millenia, and have just as much right to a country as the Palestinians. Let’s not pretend they’d be safe in a Palestinian state or welcomed if they fled to neighbouring countries, given how popular Mein Kampf still is in the region. You’d be exchanging defacto Apartheid for genocide.
And let’s not pretend that the Israelis have always undermined the peace process. For example, it’s no coincidence that Israeli politics shifted to the right after 2000, when Arafat walked away from further negotiations at Camp David, something even the Saudi ambassador described as criminal, and despite the Israeli PM offering far reaching and deeply unpopular concessions. Of course, Israel also helped Hamas’ rise to power, so once again no good guys or bad guys.
It’s a mess and now it’s a messy war.
All we can do is urge both sides to limit civilian casulties, not target them deliberately, but they are inevitable.
Where the fuck do you expect over 2 million Palestinians to go? They can’t exactly walk right into Israel.
the open border to Egypt. What would you do with your family if you were in that situation? Be honest, get out of your armchair, dust off the cheeto crumbs from your fingers and think about it like a normal person.
You’d go. You’d put your family above ideology. If you dont, I really find it hard to sympathise, especially if you were celebrating in the streets in the last few days about a bunch of dead teenagers
Right, yeah, just give up their homes. That sounds reasonable.
Refugees to Europe: “they should just stay home, we can’t deal with thousands of refugees!”
Refugees to Egypt: “Why aren’t 2 million people just fleeing?”
It’s just the Madagascar Plan all over again.
yeah, they have such a great life they would have to give up…
And who’s fault do you think that is?
i cant see the context, but the answer is probably hamas. Any other brain tinglers you got there?
Starts with an I, ends with an L.
Israel have for years been treating the Gaza Palestinians like second class citizens, apartheid style. Is that a good amount of context for you?
im gonna make this really simple cause its pretty fucking easy.
there is no context that justifies what hamas did. at all
According to your own logic, the Jews should have never needed Israel handed back to them then.
So why did the Jews come back to Israel to begin with? Not that your condescending bullshit of a comment is worth replying to.
maybe ask the jews not a random commenter
One small border crossing (that is not exactly the most open) for over 2 million people into a country that is ideal hostile to Palestinians? Great option. /s
And how exactly is that not ethnic cleansing?
And no, there were not over 2 million Palestinians celebrating in the streets after the terrorist attacks. Get your head out of your ass.
deleted by creator
Show me where Palestine even touches Egypt. What are u on about??? Palestine is literally surrounded.
Rafah
https://www.google.com/maps/place/31°16’29.1"N+34°14’44.3"E/@31.2747666,34.2430521,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d31.274762!4d34.245627?entry=ttu
bet you must feel like a bit of an idiot at this point?
That’s the Gaza strip you absolute moron.
and what ‘surrounds’ it you intelligent human? israel? on all sides?
Let me ask you a grade 1 question.
“what countries border the palestine/gaza”?
Lets see how silly you want to be
they literally can’t leave, and haven’t had an election since 2006
so hamas is a terroist dictatorship. who broke into their neighboors place, slaughtered hundreds of innocents for no reason at all, kidnapped dozens more and threaten to kill them, and these are the guys you think are awesome
least bloodthirsty lemming
what? I never said that. fuck hamas and fuck you for suggesting I’d like them
This person seems to think that criticism of Israel makes us Hamas-lovers. Not sure where this shit is coming from.
This shit is coming from Israel.
Criticism of Israel is antisemitism and sympathy for Palestinians is terrorism.
It’s double plus good speak.
I’ve seen this rhetoric before here and I don’t understand the goal. Berating everyone who isn’t sucking Bibi’s dick and calling them terrorist lovers isn’t going to create any good will towards Israel, quite the opposite.
im sorry, ive been called a ‘zionist’ (whatever the fuck that even means), a bootlicker, pro-apartheid for simply giving a fuck about people being murdered yesterday. so forgive me if im gonna call out your bullshit
mind you, the killings didn’t start yesterday
deleted by creator
Perhaps get off the internet and stop involving yourself so much in something that likely doesn’t affect you. You went into the fire and then complained about it.
no, the furious downvotes and rambly angry replies mean a whole bunch of you little murder lovin basement dwellers are actually getting annoyed by my comments, which I can only call a win
No one thinks they’re awesome. We just don’t want civilians to pay the price for their blood thirsty unelected leaders.
You should read some of the comment sections on lemmy. Hell, people even have been celebrating on the streets of foreign countries
We are reading the comment sections on lemmy.
You are reading one recent comment section.
I said this in another thread and I will say it again here:
I always find it odd how people blame “extremists” and the Palestinians for this.
Israel starts to steal homes, land and killing men, children and women. No one bat an eye to that.
Then extremists and hate towards Israel came and bam, they are the bad ones suddenly.
Certainly what Hamas does is entirely wrong however - People cannot expect them be silent and get killed by Israeli forces.
This is what happens from decades upon decades of oppression.
This entire conflict was created by Israel stealing land and starting a genocide mission on Palestinians.
In my eyes, yes. I was absolutely a ‘both sides are as bad as each other’ person 3 days ago. Now Its obvious one side is objectively worse and crossed a line that cant be walked back without serious blood and retribution
Israel crossed that line every single day. Literally every single day for 75 years.
yeah well when you go and massacre innocents any ‘greivance’ you have can go take a hike
So if Israel can bomb Gaza for the actions of Hamas, by that logic (which I strongly disagree with), Hamas can also go around bombing Israel because they kill civilians on the fly.
Right?
deleted by creator
Israel crossed that line and continues to cross it every year.
You don’t care.
Hamas crosses the line once, you’re magically no longer concerned with the suffering of the Palestinians.
Give me a break, what a cop-out answer.
lots of horrible people exposing themselves as not caring about innocent people caught in the crossfire of this war like this
you support terrorism and the slaughtering of innocents. You would be right at home with the protestors in sydney today chanting ‘gas the jews’ (yes, they literally were saying that)
Isn’t that exactly what Israel is proposing to do in retaliation? And let’s be honest has been doing for decades.
It’s completely fucked and both sides are awful.
But it’s the civilians on both sides that pay the highest price.
both sides are fucked, but no, israel is not proposing to go in specifically to murder civilians and target civilians.
Many high ranking Israeli politicians have directly called for the genocide of Palestinians.
Many Palestinians die every year due to Israeli crimes against humanity.
Israel has cut off food and water to 2 million people.
No siree, Israel is innocent and it’s just one side.
Hypocrisy at its finest.
EDIT: so basically you are saying, you are fine with Israel killing millions upon millions of Palestinian people but when it Hamas is doing the exact same thing that’s wrong.
EDIT 2: how can you be “be for both sides”? One side is committing genocide and the other is fighting for their right to live. Hamas was literally created around 1987s to fight back for Palestinians lives.
When peaceful revolution is impossible, violence revolution is inevitable.
least bloodthirsty tankie
What do you mean by that?
run it through google translate if its too hard for you
Why do you avoid explaining yourself when people ask?
He seems to be either a troll or a hardcore pro-Israel. Whatever it is, do not give him - your energy and time. Not worth it at all.
are you fucking stalking me bud? you seem to have a pretty sick obsession with following me around. creepy
Such a well made argument, seems you got no better nor valid ones and thus you have to do such behavior. Glad blocking existing.
sweet, one less unemployed tankie that will reply with nonsense
Not sure you know what that means, since we’re not discussing socialism
Leave? How?
https://www.google.com/maps/place/31°16’29.1"N+34°14’44.3"E/@31.2747666,34.2430521,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d31.274762!4d34.245627?entry=ttu
I cant beleive how stupid so many of you are