How would that realistically look like without Isreal waging war with almost the entire Middle East?
The ‘middle ground’ for Hamas is “kill all the jews in their land and destroy the Israeli state”.
Edit: how about instead of merely downvoting you guys respond with a thought of a potential solution that doesnt end with Israel getting completely butt fucked. This whole invasion was just an exercise for people brainstorm on how to shit on Israel regardless of the outcome.
Hamas wants all of Israeli territory. The PLO is fighting to regain the property it had prior to 1917. Do you really think that Israel not pushing back is a “good enough” solution? What borders do you think the Palestenians will be content with when like 70% of their land had been effectively taken.
I understand that Israel was kind of just given the land but thats ancient history now. Hamas has said anyone and everyone in Israel is an enemy because of some stupid ancestral ties… Would you prefer all the zionist jews to pack up and leave? There is no middle ground. At this point its either all the jews in Israel are killed or palestine/ lebanon /jordan/ etc accept that Israel needs to be left alone.
I am on the complete opposite side of you. I believe Hamas is a terrorist and anyone that thinks that their actions are justified are getting brainwashed.
Oh no, what happened was 100% a terrorist attack and not justified.
Short term, The middle ground is to retreat back to the land that was stolen and given to you, all land that has changed hands since then is put under international control as a buffer state DMZ.
Long term, improve living conditions in Gaza and the West Bank while using the DMZ to allow people to safely mix and learn more about each other while forming new positive relationship.
I grant you that it is a hard solution, and it will probably only happen after someone detonates a nuke and the international community stands together and does it by force.
It’s a benevolent dictatorship situation and the only way to stop the bloodshed is with so much of a third party in between that extremists on both sides are afraid to do anything so as not to bring the hamner of god down upon them.
You claim Israel to wage war against almost thr entire middle east. That is just ludicrious. Where are the Syrian, Jordanian, Lebanese, Iraqi, Egyptian, Saudi, Quatari, Kuwaiti, Omari, Jemeni, Lybian, Algerian, Tunisian, Moroccan, Sudanese and Iranian forces?
The best that can be claimed is Israel being at war with Hamas now and having had skirmishes with Hezbollah and Iran, albeit these were entirely Israeli attacks in Iran.
The reality of the current situation is that Palestine is probably going to cease to exist… And you are asking about a solution where Israel doesn’t cease to exist?
Yeah that is just naive. Israel has no interest in destroying palestine… but palestine does have interest in destroying Isreal. My real shit take here is that the world would be better off without the PLO regardless.
Is this the first time this has ever happened? I mean a complete blockade. I know blockades in the area have happened before but Egypt was allowed to transport goods in and out.
Israel’s existence is based on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Palestine does not care about killing Zionists as much as taking back their land. There’s nothing preventing the Zionists to own the land in Palestine legally, other than that they’ll have to give up the privilege of what they stole. Many residents in the country even have dual citizenship so they can go back to their homelands if they can’t afford to pay fairly.
The ‘middle ground’ for Hamas is “kill all the jews in their land and destroy the Israeli state”.
In the original charter Hamas doesn’t even mention the Jewish people, they just say they want the Palestinian land back. And in the updated charter Hamas agrees to the 1967 borders and a 2 state system.
It’s the PIJ who hasn’t accepted a 2 state system.
I understand that Hamas tried to fool the world with the charter revision but lets look back at the classics. Classics such as
“The Jews are the most despicable and contemptible nation to crawl upon the face of the Earth, because they have displayed hostility to Allah. Allah will kill the Jews in the hell of the world to come, just like they killed the believers in the hell of this world.” - Atallah Abu Al-Subh, 2011
Or
“The movement participates in politics and diplomacy and all types of work, but it insists on the choice of jihad and resistance. This choice is Hamas’s greater and first strategy… This is Hamas. Hamas is not changing its skin.” - Khaled Mashaal, 2017
Or what about this great one
“The Jews are the cancer spreading all over the world…the Jews are a virus like AIDS hitting humankind…Jews are responsible for all wars and conflicts” - Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris, 2005
How about this
“There are Jews everywhere. We must attack every Jew on planet Earth! We must slaughter and kill them, with Allah’s help. We will lacerate and tear them to pieces.” - Fathi Hammad, 2019
Theres just so many to pick from
“the Quran tells us to remove the jews in their entirety… Removing the Jews from the land they occupied in 1948 is an immutable principle because it appears in the Book of Allah.” - Mahmoud Zatar, 2017
Do you honestly think the real goal is to move back to the green line or is it to just overthrow all of Israel and basically mass murder of Jews?
1st quote talks about the nation and not the Jewish peoples. “God will punish you in the afterlife” is not an actionable threat.
2nd quote is a response to an assassination an Israeli spy was eventually tried and allegedly confessed. If you’re not racist “jihad” just means “fighting”. Again nothing about “Kill all jews”
3rd quote How is this dude connected to Hamas? I can’t even find evidence of him being alive after 2006. This quote is gross and I won’t defend it but I ask that people keep in mind the context, Gaza was being invaded by Israel, not the other way around.
5th quote is not actually featured verbatim in the article. You paraphrased everything before the “…”. But again it’s just saying Hamas wants the land back and came a month before the new charter
How would that realistically look like without Isreal waging war with almost the entire Middle East?
The ‘middle ground’ for Hamas is “kill all the jews in their land and destroy the Israeli state”.
Edit: how about instead of merely downvoting you guys respond with a thought of a potential solution that doesnt end with Israel getting completely butt fucked. This whole invasion was just an exercise for people brainstorm on how to shit on Israel regardless of the outcome.
Here’s one way to start. Israel pulls back to its agreed upon boundaries and stops encroaching on others.
Hamas wants all of Israeli territory. The PLO is fighting to regain the property it had prior to 1917. Do you really think that Israel not pushing back is a “good enough” solution? What borders do you think the Palestenians will be content with when like 70% of their land had been effectively taken.
The PLO didn’t have any land in 1917, as it didn’t exist until 1963.
Sorry I meant the peoples of Palestine not the organization made as a retaliation to anti palestanian nationalism.
It’s a first step. Can you really be mad at someone whose land was given away by someone else and then the people it was given to keep stealing more.
Straight up, i don’t see why Israel is a country still.
I understand that Israel was kind of just given the land but thats ancient history now. Hamas has said anyone and everyone in Israel is an enemy because of some stupid ancestral ties… Would you prefer all the zionist jews to pack up and leave? There is no middle ground. At this point its either all the jews in Israel are killed or palestine/ lebanon /jordan/ etc accept that Israel needs to be left alone.
I am on the complete opposite side of you. I believe Hamas is a terrorist and anyone that thinks that their actions are justified are getting brainwashed.
Oh no, what happened was 100% a terrorist attack and not justified.
Short term, The middle ground is to retreat back to the land that was stolen and given to you, all land that has changed hands since then is put under international control as a buffer state DMZ.
Long term, improve living conditions in Gaza and the West Bank while using the DMZ to allow people to safely mix and learn more about each other while forming new positive relationship.
I grant you that it is a hard solution, and it will probably only happen after someone detonates a nuke and the international community stands together and does it by force.
It’s a benevolent dictatorship situation and the only way to stop the bloodshed is with so much of a third party in between that extremists on both sides are afraid to do anything so as not to bring the hamner of god down upon them.
You claim Israel to wage war against almost thr entire middle east. That is just ludicrious. Where are the Syrian, Jordanian, Lebanese, Iraqi, Egyptian, Saudi, Quatari, Kuwaiti, Omari, Jemeni, Lybian, Algerian, Tunisian, Moroccan, Sudanese and Iranian forces?
The best that can be claimed is Israel being at war with Hamas now and having had skirmishes with Hezbollah and Iran, albeit these were entirely Israeli attacks in Iran.
The reality of the current situation is that Palestine is probably going to cease to exist… And you are asking about a solution where Israel doesn’t cease to exist?
I’m confused.
Yeah that is just naive. Israel has no interest in destroying palestine… but palestine does have interest in destroying Isreal. My real shit take here is that the world would be better off without the PLO regardless.
I take it you haven’t read the article where it is stated objective of Netanyahu’s Coalition partners?
Link?
What was that again about killing all those animals. And blockading of water, food and energy ?
Sometimes you have to pluck out the weeds am i right chat? If you dont play nice, you dont get to eat. That was a joke btw.
I havent read too much into how israel has used overaeching power like that but if you have any non biased sources id love to see.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/israel-defense-minister-human-animals-gaza-palestine_n_6524220ae4b09f4b8d412e0a
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israel-threatens-egypt-on-gaza-aid-delivery/3014394
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/9/israel-announces-total-blockade-on-gaza
Is this the first time this has ever happened? I mean a complete blockade. I know blockades in the area have happened before but Egypt was allowed to transport goods in and out.
And… You are calling me naive?
Israel’s existence is based on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Palestine does not care about killing Zionists as much as taking back their land. There’s nothing preventing the Zionists to own the land in Palestine legally, other than that they’ll have to give up the privilege of what they stole. Many residents in the country even have dual citizenship so they can go back to their homelands if they can’t afford to pay fairly.
Did you just comment on an almost 2 month old post
In the original charter Hamas doesn’t even mention the Jewish people, they just say they want the Palestinian land back. And in the updated charter Hamas agrees to the 1967 borders and a 2 state system.
It’s the PIJ who hasn’t accepted a 2 state system.
I understand that Hamas tried to fool the world with the charter revision but lets look back at the classics. Classics such as
Or
Or what about this great one
How about this
Theres just so many to pick from
Do you honestly think the real goal is to move back to the green line or is it to just overthrow all of Israel and basically mass murder of Jews?
I appreciate the sources
1st quote talks about the nation and not the Jewish peoples. “God will punish you in the afterlife” is not an actionable threat.
2nd quote is a response to an assassination an Israeli spy was eventually tried and allegedly confessed. If you’re not racist “jihad” just means “fighting”. Again nothing about “Kill all jews”
3rd quote How is this dude connected to Hamas? I can’t even find evidence of him being alive after 2006. This quote is gross and I won’t defend it but I ask that people keep in mind the context, Gaza was being invaded by Israel, not the other way around.
4th quote is from an unreliable far right news organization with a history of lying to support Israel and make Muslims look bad. Here is a more reliable source where Hamas condemns Hammad’s words https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2019-07-16/ty-article/hamas-rebuffs-leaders-call-for-worldwide-attacks-on-jews/0000017f-db37-db22-a17f-ffb70cac0000
5th quote is not actually featured verbatim in the article. You paraphrased everything before the “…”. But again it’s just saying Hamas wants the land back and came a month before the new charter