Utter bullshit.
It’s not about driving from a to be.
Have you ever brought your old and ill grandparent to a doctors appointment 20kms away when he can’t hold it anymore - via train/bus?
Have you ever took your grandma to the grocery shop via train/bus? Have you ever get home as fast as possible because of a accident at home? Have you ever done anything outside of a big city?!
People who advocate for better public transportation usually also advocate for walkable neighborhoods. Your grandparents would not need a car to go to grocery, it’ll be at a walking distance. Same for doctors.
As for emergencies, yes, a car would be nice. But you can always get a can in that situation. No need to destroy the planet every other day.
Let me ask you this, have you ever done anything outside of a car only dystopia?
Are you willingly missing the point? Those town exist like this due to having a car centered society. Look at any other country where car isn’t the only means of transportation. Towns are closer together, with shared infrastructure so that such a situation does not arise in the first place. That’s what everyone’s advocating for. No one’s calling you a monster for using cars in a car dependent society. But realize that things can be better, and vote for change whenever possible.
And about the privileged thing, I literally grew up in rural India lol.
Edit: Also, who called you any word? Don’t play victim here.
What? Do you think using a truck to carry goods for hundreds of people and using a car everyday mostly to transport one person are same things?
Also, who said anything about destroying a car? I said that car culture is destroying our planet, which is a fact. You’re the one taking it personally lol.
In places designed before/not for cars you’d have places within walking distance like groceries. In the doctor scenario, we’ve had adult diapers for a long time. Your solution is you let them pee in your car?
And more importantly: it’s rare I post a rebuttal just for the person I’m responding to. Most people aren’t going to be swayed if they made an emotional argument. It’s for everyone else who sees it. Also me. It feels good to get thoughts out, sometimes.
In the doctor scenario, we’ve had adult diapers for a long time. Your solution is you let them pee in your car?
And your solution is they shit themselves on public transportation?
I mean, I’m 100% for better public transportation and urban centers designed around walking, but let’s compare apples to apples here.
They didn’t make a straw man argument, they had a point. It’s a genuine issue and they deserve better than a flippant remark telling them to make grandpa wear diapers so he can piss himself on his walk from the bus stop.
And your solution is they shit themselves on public transportation?
Do you not understand how incontinence works? Someone who can’t hold their bowels or bladder wears diapers, full-stop. Sometimes this is due to an underlying issue that can be fixed, sometimes not. In either case the person has to wear adult diapers at least some of the time.
I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. This person will be wearing diapers regardless of their transport. But you seem to disagree if they are being driven in a car. Therefore, would you allow an incontinent person to not wear diapers in your car, where they may have an accident?
My point is that the “piss in the car” comment was mean, thoughtless, and added nothing. If grandpa is incontinent, then he’ll wear diapers regardless of the car or the bus.
Your comment was either a.) implying that messing themselves in public was better than in relative privacy, or b.) if you use a car, grandpa doesn’t get to wear Depends.
Take your pick.
It might not be what you meant, but you were too busy being a jerk to notice that it’s what you said.
@Miclux Oh wow, it’s almost if villages or small towns could be improved with better public transportation options and fewer cars. This is a great revelation, thank you for this chat.
The photos OP is sharing are depicting 10 or more lanes. That’s precisely about a big city. Meanwhile the situation you describe, e.g doctor 20km away, no train/bus access, seems to be about not a big city. I believe you two are not talking about the same problem even though both are valid.
Even cities below a population of 100k have their own hospital and dozens of doctor’s offices all within a ten minute walking distance from each other.
Sure, if you live in that ten minute walking distance. Sometimes I think progressive movements are their own worst enemies. The nearest urgent care facility to me is 26 mins, by bike, on main roads that are used by cars and trucks. Some spots have a bike lane (which is its own joke and hardly safe). I’d love to see how many actually fall into the “ten minute walk”. I don’t even have a pharmacy that close, and we’ve all heard the meme about a Walgreens/CVS at every corner.
Point is, those who are able to use mass transit or are in places where things are conveniently close seem to always chime in with victim blaming of those who aren’t like them. It’s a subtle version of the “if you don’t like it, move”.
I would love a world where everything is local and self-sufficient, but all the calls to action never talk about how to get there from here, they only say we should do “something” now. A trip without a roadmap will just get you lost.
I live in an ivory tower in Brooklyn where there’s like 5 groceries, urgent cares, and pharmacies within a 10 minute sidewalked walk. (and not fancy Brooklyn). Sometimes I forget most everywhere else kind of sucks for transit, but I’m lucky enough that I can choose not to live those places.
Yes, yes, we get it: folks like you and @[email protected] are those special snowflakes who’re always the exception to any possible argument an urbanist could make.
But guess what: that very quality means that people like you are such a tiny minority that you don’t matter and there’s no reason anybody should give a shit what you think (on this topic, anyway). By all means, keep driving! Since you’re a rounding error, it won’t make a difference anyway!
Now quit your reactionary bitching and let society solve the problems for the vast majority of folks that the solutions do apply to.
All you’d have to do is do away with american zoning regulations and use european urban design principles instead. The market itself is impatiently waiting for that change in policy to happen.
A population under 10k is closer to a village than a city. There are towns with a population of 5k that do indeed have their own clinics and even their own train stations as long as they are not located on the side or the top of a mountain, though it is extremely rare for a mountaintop settlement to have a population greater than 3k.
It is honestly baffling to see that people can not fathom that urban sprawl can take shape without suburbanization. You can have houses concentrated into small splotches of land and those are chained together by a singular road and railway. Everything around that is just farmland. That’s just how villages look like in Europe.
I have done most of those things, ~95% of everything I have ever done was in small rural towns/villages. I don’t have a car, refuse riding as a passenger, and no license either and don’t feel the need to get one at all. Admittedly I live in a 15k people city right now but that is just way too much so I’ll go back to something smaller as soon as I can. And I don’t live in the US so I got that going for me, which is nice.
this is a weird instance, to be sure. I thought it was satire, but there’s a lot of people who seem to lack the ability to think critically about transportation in general.
your comment isn’t even irrational at all. but you’re being downvoted because you don’t ascribe to the theory that the world should be all butterflies and rainbows and everyone can just walk everywhere or take public transport.
public transportation can be great. but it can be so bad it’s basically unusable.
all stuff I read in here sounds like a bunch of kids preparing for debate team about whether cars are “good” or “evil”
Utter bullshit. It’s not about driving from a to be.
Have you ever brought your old and ill grandparent to a doctors appointment 20kms away when he can’t hold it anymore - via train/bus? Have you ever took your grandma to the grocery shop via train/bus? Have you ever get home as fast as possible because of a accident at home? Have you ever done anything outside of a big city?!
People who advocate for better public transportation usually also advocate for walkable neighborhoods. Your grandparents would not need a car to go to grocery, it’ll be at a walking distance. Same for doctors.
As for emergencies, yes, a car would be nice. But you can always get a can in that situation. No need to destroy the planet every other day.
Let me ask you this, have you ever done anything outside of a car only dystopia?
Removed by mod
Are you willingly missing the point? Those town exist like this due to having a car centered society. Look at any other country where car isn’t the only means of transportation. Towns are closer together, with shared infrastructure so that such a situation does not arise in the first place. That’s what everyone’s advocating for. No one’s calling you a monster for using cars in a car dependent society. But realize that things can be better, and vote for change whenever possible.
And about the privileged thing, I literally grew up in rural India lol.
Edit: Also, who called you any word? Don’t play victim here.
Removed by mod
What? Do you think using a truck to carry goods for hundreds of people and using a car everyday mostly to transport one person are same things?
Also, who said anything about destroying a car? I said that car culture is destroying our planet, which is a fact. You’re the one taking it personally lol.
In places designed before/not for cars you’d have places within walking distance like groceries. In the doctor scenario, we’ve had adult diapers for a long time. Your solution is you let them pee in your car?
I don’t know why you’d argue with someone that thinks driving to Walmart is the best humans have to offer.
It’s a very slow work day, honestly.
And more importantly: it’s rare I post a rebuttal just for the person I’m responding to. Most people aren’t going to be swayed if they made an emotional argument. It’s for everyone else who sees it. Also me. It feels good to get thoughts out, sometimes.
That really does sum up the Stockholm syndrome some folks have for fucked up America’s zoning code, doesn’t it?
And your solution is they shit themselves on public transportation?
I mean, I’m 100% for better public transportation and urban centers designed around walking, but let’s compare apples to apples here.
They didn’t make a straw man argument, they had a point. It’s a genuine issue and they deserve better than a flippant remark telling them to make grandpa wear diapers so he can piss himself on his walk from the bus stop.
Do you not understand how incontinence works? Someone who can’t hold their bowels or bladder wears diapers, full-stop. Sometimes this is due to an underlying issue that can be fixed, sometimes not. In either case the person has to wear adult diapers at least some of the time.
I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. This person will be wearing diapers regardless of their transport. But you seem to disagree if they are being driven in a car. Therefore, would you allow an incontinent person to not wear diapers in your car, where they may have an accident?
My point is that the “piss in the car” comment was mean, thoughtless, and added nothing. If grandpa is incontinent, then he’ll wear diapers regardless of the car or the bus.
Your comment was either a.) implying that messing themselves in public was better than in relative privacy, or b.) if you use a car, grandpa doesn’t get to wear Depends.
Take your pick.
It might not be what you meant, but you were too busy being a jerk to notice that it’s what you said.
deleted by creator
So you proved my point. Try it in a village or very small town.
@Miclux Oh wow, it’s almost if villages or small towns could be improved with better public transportation options and fewer cars. This is a great revelation, thank you for this chat.
@Miclux @cypherpunks have you ever done anything inside of a big city? have you ever commuted to work?
Have you ever done this between small villages? 30km apart? Have fun.
The photos OP is sharing are depicting 10 or more lanes. That’s precisely about a big city. Meanwhile the situation you describe, e.g doctor 20km away, no train/bus access, seems to be about not a big city. I believe you two are not talking about the same problem even though both are valid.
Even cities below a population of 100k have their own hospital and dozens of doctor’s offices all within a ten minute walking distance from each other.
Sure, if you live in that ten minute walking distance. Sometimes I think progressive movements are their own worst enemies. The nearest urgent care facility to me is 26 mins, by bike, on main roads that are used by cars and trucks. Some spots have a bike lane (which is its own joke and hardly safe). I’d love to see how many actually fall into the “ten minute walk”. I don’t even have a pharmacy that close, and we’ve all heard the meme about a Walgreens/CVS at every corner.
Point is, those who are able to use mass transit or are in places where things are conveniently close seem to always chime in with victim blaming of those who aren’t like them. It’s a subtle version of the “if you don’t like it, move”.
I would love a world where everything is local and self-sufficient, but all the calls to action never talk about how to get there from here, they only say we should do “something” now. A trip without a roadmap will just get you lost.
Where do you live that sucks so hard?
I live in an ivory tower in Brooklyn where there’s like 5 groceries, urgent cares, and pharmacies within a 10 minute sidewalked walk. (and not fancy Brooklyn). Sometimes I forget most everywhere else kind of sucks for transit, but I’m lucky enough that I can choose not to live those places.
Yes, yes, we get it: folks like you and @[email protected] are those special snowflakes who’re always the exception to any possible argument an urbanist could make.
But guess what: that very quality means that people like you are such a tiny minority that you don’t matter and there’s no reason anybody should give a shit what you think (on this topic, anyway). By all means, keep driving! Since you’re a rounding error, it won’t make a difference anyway!
Now quit your reactionary bitching and let society solve the problems for the vast majority of folks that the solutions do apply to.
All you’d have to do is do away with american zoning regulations and use european urban design principles instead. The market itself is impatiently waiting for that change in policy to happen.
You don’t even ever lived in a city with less than 10k population. No doc, no hospital. No train. Just bullshit talks from privileged people.
I’ve lived in a few towns with under 10,000 inhabitants. All have had doctors, groceries, schools and regular bus services.
A population under 10k is closer to a village than a city. There are towns with a population of 5k that do indeed have their own clinics and even their own train stations as long as they are not located on the side or the top of a mountain, though it is extremely rare for a mountaintop settlement to have a population greater than 3k.
It is honestly baffling to see that people can not fathom that urban sprawl can take shape without suburbanization. You can have houses concentrated into small splotches of land and those are chained together by a singular road and railway. Everything around that is just farmland. That’s just how villages look like in Europe.
I have done most of those things, ~95% of everything I have ever done was in small rural towns/villages. I don’t have a car, refuse riding as a passenger, and no license either and don’t feel the need to get one at all. Admittedly I live in a 15k people city right now but that is just way too much so I’ll go back to something smaller as soon as I can. And I don’t live in the US so I got that going for me, which is nice.
this is a weird instance, to be sure. I thought it was satire, but there’s a lot of people who seem to lack the ability to think critically about transportation in general.
your comment isn’t even irrational at all. but you’re being downvoted because you don’t ascribe to the theory that the world should be all butterflies and rainbows and everyone can just walk everywhere or take public transport.
public transportation can be great. but it can be so bad it’s basically unusable.
all stuff I read in here sounds like a bunch of kids preparing for debate team about whether cars are “good” or “evil”