Israel on Saturday described as "propaganda" a claim by Hamas that the militant group had wanted to release two more hostages on humanitarian grounds but that Israel declined to receive them.
I’m sorry you think that way. I am genuinely pro-Palestinian freedom. Antiapartheid. But I’m not going to take propaganda at face value. We have to critically think about all the data we’re getting.
Hamas saying they are unable to release two hostages is false on the face of itself. To claim that they are unable to release hostages because of Israeli resistance is also demonstrably false. We both agree, in this very conversation, the Hamas could drop off anybody they want to the Red Cross at any time. The fact that they’re unwilling to do that, and blame Israel, demonstrates this is a false propaganda narrative.
This is not a dichotomy, you’re not pro-Hamas or pro Israeli. There’s more positions to that. Both of the belligerent military forces here have demonstrated themselves to lie constantly. We can dislike both of them and still want Palestinian freedom, and the end of apartheid.
But if my logic is incorrect, please help me understand my logical errors here.
Your “why does it matter if” and resting your argument on it. I don’t see it. Why wouldn’t Israel negotiate about hostage release? It has done so in the past successfully. Hamas isn’t pulling a wildcard here.
Looking at Israeli public opinion, it seems that no one believes this is a good way to handle the hostage situation. We can talk about Hamas lying all day but it’s quite likely true that hostages have died in Israeli bombing of Gaza itself. Again, Israel has a bigger goal here that goes beyond those hostages. Their own governments are betraying them, it’s not fair. Israel’s actions indicate that their concern for the wellbeing of those hostages is not genuine.
Okay. Because you didn’t indicate any of my logic was incorrect. Do we both agree Hamas is lying about their intention to release two hostages with no strings attached? The demonstration of the lie is the fact that they haven’t done it.
Everything you said about the intent of Israel may or may not be true, but that’s not the subject here. This whole post is about Hamas lying about wanting to release hostages. It has nothing to do with Israel.
The post, and the news article it references, are about Hamas saying they want to release two people. We’ve discussed multiple ways they could release two people without interference by Israel. Israel not cooperating with Hamas may or may not be true. But it’s a non sequiter. If I told you I wanted to pay my rent, but President Shanmugaratnam wouldn’t agree with me on my plan to pay rent, you would rightly think that’s nonsense, it’s a non sequitur, the president of Singapore has nothing to do with me paying rent. Israel has nothing to do with Hamas releasing hostages to the Red Cross, or the UN, or to Egypt. These are independent things.
Internally, Netanyahu can’t afford to reject any semi reasonable offer. He also wants to be able to say he did anything positive.
He’ll hopefully be crucified no matter what, but in his eyes nothing is his fault and he’s working hard at getting points for any achievement and blaming everything and anyone in the past millenia.
Great. Why can’t they do that again? Why press release that Israel is preventing them from releasing two more hostages with no strings attached?
No one said or suggested they can’t do thart again. It’s saying Israel doesn’t want to cooperate.
I don’t want to believe Hamas straight away but Israel is the one with the track record of lies.
My point is, why does it matter if Israel cooperates or not? There’s many places to release the hostages to that aren’t Israeli.
So this press release, and the implication of it, looks like straight propaganda based on a lie.
Why does it matter if Israel, whose citizens and visitors are hostages, responds to a request to release the hostages?
Give me a break. Israel always gets absolved in everything doesn’t it.
Yeah it could be propaganda but your reasoning is really deficient here.
I’m sorry you think that way. I am genuinely pro-Palestinian freedom. Antiapartheid. But I’m not going to take propaganda at face value. We have to critically think about all the data we’re getting.
Hamas saying they are unable to release two hostages is false on the face of itself. To claim that they are unable to release hostages because of Israeli resistance is also demonstrably false. We both agree, in this very conversation, the Hamas could drop off anybody they want to the Red Cross at any time. The fact that they’re unwilling to do that, and blame Israel, demonstrates this is a false propaganda narrative.
This is not a dichotomy, you’re not pro-Hamas or pro Israeli. There’s more positions to that. Both of the belligerent military forces here have demonstrated themselves to lie constantly. We can dislike both of them and still want Palestinian freedom, and the end of apartheid.
But if my logic is incorrect, please help me understand my logical errors here.
Your “why does it matter if” and resting your argument on it. I don’t see it. Why wouldn’t Israel negotiate about hostage release? It has done so in the past successfully. Hamas isn’t pulling a wildcard here.
Looking at Israeli public opinion, it seems that no one believes this is a good way to handle the hostage situation. We can talk about Hamas lying all day but it’s quite likely true that hostages have died in Israeli bombing of Gaza itself. Again, Israel has a bigger goal here that goes beyond those hostages. Their own governments are betraying them, it’s not fair. Israel’s actions indicate that their concern for the wellbeing of those hostages is not genuine.
Okay. Because you didn’t indicate any of my logic was incorrect. Do we both agree Hamas is lying about their intention to release two hostages with no strings attached? The demonstration of the lie is the fact that they haven’t done it.
Everything you said about the intent of Israel may or may not be true, but that’s not the subject here. This whole post is about Hamas lying about wanting to release hostages. It has nothing to do with Israel.
No, we don’t agree. For me it’s inconclusive.
I don’t see how this is more about Hamas and less about Israel, so maybe we aren’t discussing stuff on the same level.
The post, and the news article it references, are about Hamas saying they want to release two people. We’ve discussed multiple ways they could release two people without interference by Israel. Israel not cooperating with Hamas may or may not be true. But it’s a non sequiter. If I told you I wanted to pay my rent, but President Shanmugaratnam wouldn’t agree with me on my plan to pay rent, you would rightly think that’s nonsense, it’s a non sequitur, the president of Singapore has nothing to do with me paying rent. Israel has nothing to do with Hamas releasing hostages to the Red Cross, or the UN, or to Egypt. These are independent things.
Internally, Netanyahu can’t afford to reject any semi reasonable offer. He also wants to be able to say he did anything positive. He’ll hopefully be crucified no matter what, but in his eyes nothing is his fault and he’s working hard at getting points for any achievement and blaming everything and anyone in the past millenia.