I never understand the anti timezone argument… Right now I know that across the world they’ll be working somewhere between 8h and 17h local like anywhere else in the world, so I do some quick math and I know when that is in relation to me. Without time zones I need to be actively informed at what time someone across the world is working in order to know when I can contact them…
But you are making assumptions which are not really true anywhere. Working hours I Spain and Germany are already white different. Main reason is of course that they share the same time zone by law, but are not geographically in the same time zone. But there are some additional differences in culture which extend this effect.
Sure, but it’s still true that businesses operate during hours similar to any other places in the world. Even in Spain, ~9 to ~14 then ~17 to ~20, the day time hours are still in the “rest of the world bracket”.
Sure, but that still means you are not reaching someone by phone at work during 4 hours of you previously mentioned 8-17 Windows.
As someone currently working from Ireland with my usual office in Germany (laptop still configured this way) with a Team from India and DST ending next week, I would prefer to drop the calculations and just remember when each colleague approximately comes online. That is not the same for each colleague and day anyways.
But if my plane lands at 9am local time, I know it’s the morning at least and I can plan my day appropriately (stores will be open or opening soon instead of just closing for example)
That information won’t be lost, though. It just would be expressed differently. They are no longer in a +8 hour time zone, which given your own location in a +1 hour zone would lead to a most likely open time of 8 - 8 + 1 = 1 til 17 - 8 + 1 = 10 your time, but in an area where opening hours are most likely between 0100 and 1000.
There is still a lookup, but no longer a lookup of time difference of the area, but a lookup of usual business hours in the area.
But right now business hours (which is what time zones are used for the most) are the same everywhere, that’s much easier than figuring out if this part is India has its business hours from 3 to 11 or from 4 to 12.
I would say not much different from looking up whether they are in the +0530 or +0630 part of India. I guess the perception of convenience also depends on what you are used to seeing.
But no matter which one they’re in, you know that by calling at 11 local (no matter if you’re using the right time zone) you’ll be calling during business hours, no need to check “What are normal business hours in India?”
There’s always one check in that situation. Whether it’s business hours or timezone difference. And you still need to check business hours even in our current system, so might as well just simplify it (which of course isn’t happening any time soon).
That’s always kind of been an illusion. For lots of places, especially around the equator, it gets hot enough that expecting everyone will work the same 9-5 schedule, and businesses will all be open at the same time, is kind of stupid. Places like arizona, it would make sense if instead everyone used a siesta schedule, or if the schedule was shifted way forward in the day, from the later night to early morning, in the much cooler parts. And that’s not even something that’s really dependent on time zones, that’s just dependent on variable climate. I see elimination of time zones, as more of an admittal that how we track that sort of thing is arbitrary anyways, so it’s probably better in my mind to eliminate any pretense of it being an objective system.
I pointed out in another comment that even with a split schedule, the morning/day part matches pretty well with what we expect when thinking business hours (9 to 14 in Spain) and your suggestion to work late in the day to early morning is just stupid, that’s how you get widespread health issues, depression and reduced productivity from people trying to with outside their body schedule. I know something about it, I worked evening/night shifts for 12 years.
I meant less evening/night shifts and more like. get up at 5:00 and stay up until 3:00 pm or so, with work obviously not being in the latter portion of the day, which is when it really starts to heat up ime. Seasonal depression and other related health issues we can cure with vitamin D, as they’ve been doing in the scandi countries since like the 70’s, so I don’t really understand how you’d be getting more health issues. If anything I would think that would be reduced as people working physical labor jobs would be less prone to heat stroke and exhaustion. You know, in places where you’re working outdoors in 110 degree weather, hottest part of the day, after having already worked for like 5 hours. At the very least I think a siesta schedule would make more sense, which there’s maybe a little bit more historical precedent for.
Look into cancer risks for people working nights, there’s more to it than vitamin D and there’s long term sleep issues that come with working nights for years, even after going back to a day schedule.
I thought what you meant was people switching to work from something like 2am to 10am, 5 or 6 am to 1 or 2pm is perfectly feasible and not that unusual (especially 6am to 2pm).
I never understand the anti timezone argument… Right now I know that across the world they’ll be working somewhere between 8h and 17h local like anywhere else in the world, so I do some quick math and I know when that is in relation to me. Without time zones I need to be actively informed at what time someone across the world is working in order to know when I can contact them…
But you are making assumptions which are not really true anywhere. Working hours I Spain and Germany are already white different. Main reason is of course that they share the same time zone by law, but are not geographically in the same time zone. But there are some additional differences in culture which extend this effect.
Sure, but it’s still true that businesses operate during hours similar to any other places in the world. Even in Spain, ~9 to ~14 then ~17 to ~20, the day time hours are still in the “rest of the world bracket”.
Sure, but that still means you are not reaching someone by phone at work during 4 hours of you previously mentioned 8-17 Windows.
As someone currently working from Ireland with my usual office in Germany (laptop still configured this way) with a Team from India and DST ending next week, I would prefer to drop the calculations and just remember when each colleague approximately comes online. That is not the same for each colleague and day anyways.
But if my plane lands at 9am local time, I know it’s the morning at least and I can plan my day appropriately (stores will be open or opening soon instead of just closing for example)
That information won’t be lost, though. It just would be expressed differently. They are no longer in a +8 hour time zone, which given your own location in a +1 hour zone would lead to a most likely open time of 8 - 8 + 1 = 1 til 17 - 8 + 1 = 10 your time, but in an area where opening hours are most likely between 0100 and 1000.
There is still a lookup, but no longer a lookup of time difference of the area, but a lookup of usual business hours in the area.
But right now business hours (which is what time zones are used for the most) are the same everywhere, that’s much easier than figuring out if this part is India has its business hours from 3 to 11 or from 4 to 12.
I would say not much different from looking up whether they are in the +0530 or +0630 part of India. I guess the perception of convenience also depends on what you are used to seeing.
But no matter which one they’re in, you know that by calling at 11 local (no matter if you’re using the right time zone) you’ll be calling during business hours, no need to check “What are normal business hours in India?”
There’s always one check in that situation. Whether it’s business hours or timezone difference. And you still need to check business hours even in our current system, so might as well just simplify it (which of course isn’t happening any time soon).
Better yet let business hours be based on daylight, no need to wonder if things are open or not based on the sun’s position in the sky.
So… Current system then?
Noon is mid day or coffee to it no matter where you are, you know businesses will be open for sure a couple hours before and after noon local time.
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That’s always kind of been an illusion. For lots of places, especially around the equator, it gets hot enough that expecting everyone will work the same 9-5 schedule, and businesses will all be open at the same time, is kind of stupid. Places like arizona, it would make sense if instead everyone used a siesta schedule, or if the schedule was shifted way forward in the day, from the later night to early morning, in the much cooler parts. And that’s not even something that’s really dependent on time zones, that’s just dependent on variable climate. I see elimination of time zones, as more of an admittal that how we track that sort of thing is arbitrary anyways, so it’s probably better in my mind to eliminate any pretense of it being an objective system.
I pointed out in another comment that even with a split schedule, the morning/day part matches pretty well with what we expect when thinking business hours (9 to 14 in Spain) and your suggestion to work late in the day to early morning is just stupid, that’s how you get widespread health issues, depression and reduced productivity from people trying to with outside their body schedule. I know something about it, I worked evening/night shifts for 12 years.
I meant less evening/night shifts and more like. get up at 5:00 and stay up until 3:00 pm or so, with work obviously not being in the latter portion of the day, which is when it really starts to heat up ime. Seasonal depression and other related health issues we can cure with vitamin D, as they’ve been doing in the scandi countries since like the 70’s, so I don’t really understand how you’d be getting more health issues. If anything I would think that would be reduced as people working physical labor jobs would be less prone to heat stroke and exhaustion. You know, in places where you’re working outdoors in 110 degree weather, hottest part of the day, after having already worked for like 5 hours. At the very least I think a siesta schedule would make more sense, which there’s maybe a little bit more historical precedent for.
Look into cancer risks for people working nights, there’s more to it than vitamin D and there’s long term sleep issues that come with working nights for years, even after going back to a day schedule.
I thought what you meant was people switching to work from something like 2am to 10am, 5 or 6 am to 1 or 2pm is perfectly feasible and not that unusual (especially 6am to 2pm).