That being said, you will learn things if you stay long enough.
Skilled labor is like a trade or where you need a specific education. I’m not even sure you need a HS diploma to work at Amazon.
Source: me, working in an Amazon FC
But yes the point of her reply is also very apt. Class solidarity friends. If you’re single making <55k or whatever the median income in your area is, there’s not a whole hella lotta difference regardless.
But I’ll also say this. There’s a lot of mfers that do MUCH less work at desk jobs, and in fact are entirely redundant and unnecessary, compared to a fry cook or Amazon tier1 employes.
I don’t think you’re looking at this the right way.
It’s not that packing boxes isn’t a skilled job.
It’s that working at McDonald’s is a skilled job.
Any job that requires a non-zero level of training (which is all of them) is a skilled job. The idea of “unskilled labor” is one perpetuated by the bourgeois to justify paying some people a shit wage and keeping them poor.
As an electrician “unskilled labour” does exist. It’s effectively the classification for anyone who can be trained in under a day and is thus replaceable. Unlike “skilled trades” who can take years of training and are not immediately replaceable.
These jobs are essential on site but their inherent replaceability keeps wages rock bottom due to competition at the bottom of the pay scale.
Examples are the “gopher” who fetches material, holds ladders, passes tools etc. Usually a young guy. Often this job only exists if there are no apprentices around, and is your foot in the door for apprentice if you show any initiative and aptitude.
Then there are the “goon jobs” like wheelbarrow pushing, unloading trucks or rough shovel work. These jobs have the worst ratio of meager pay to hard work possible, and in general suck ass and should be avoided at all cost. Honestly I don’t know why anyone shows up for these, I would rather pick up cans or bum for spare change
Although it can probably be agreed that Australia is an outlier for low wages, noting that we need more people to fill jobs, and that is the driver behind such high wages.
12 years ago I overheard someone who could not have been more than 20 years of age saying they wouldn’t work for less than $80/hour. That was in the middle of a mining boom when 10,000 people a week were moving west because the wages were higher than what many could obtain with a degree. School teachers, nurses etc were quitting their jobs to work in the mining sector.
The only requirement is a white card which you can now obtain online for less than $50 and a few hours of your time.
These distinctions come about organically though. If you work with a crew of people doing tasks that require a lot of experience to do well, like cutting metal precisely, you will notice quickly who has that experience and who doesn’t. Specialization of trades came about naturally as societies progressed. Not all tasks need to be so precise or require training. The issue I think with the distinction is when people are not paid enough to live for a job, when their tasks are just as essential to the completion of the project as those making much more. Many jobs that are ‘unskilled’ were also ‘essential’ during the lock down phase of the pandemic. I agree with your point that the language we use is important, by calling these ‘low’ tasks unskilled it helps excuse the unfair pay.
The inherent attributes of certain skills, or kinds of labor, surely express natural distinctions, and their importance is supported by the quite robust tendency within society for the emergence of specialization.
However, the deeper structures of categorization and classification, as emphasized in the particular comment, are more dubious respecting any genuine meaning or validity, and certainly may tend to confer harm to those on whom have been imposed less prestigious ranks.
Well yes and no. I mean, there are no interviews at Amazon, like if you can show up, have an ID, and can communicate in virtually any language, they will find a job for you… I just don’t consider that skilled labor in the same sense as being a plumber or engineer or teacher, where you really need to study and know specific things before you can competently perform the work.
I mean, sure being able to walk and read and use your hands are skills, but really basic level.
Working as a teacher or engineer relates very weakly to academic study, and very strongly to the interaction between innate talents and practical experience.
It’s not “skilled” labor.
You need zero skills to work at Amazon.
That being said, you will learn things if you stay long enough.
Skilled labor is like a trade or where you need a specific education. I’m not even sure you need a HS diploma to work at Amazon.
Source: me, working in an Amazon FC
But yes the point of her reply is also very apt. Class solidarity friends. If you’re single making <55k or whatever the median income in your area is, there’s not a whole hella lotta difference regardless.
But I’ll also say this. There’s a lot of mfers that do MUCH less work at desk jobs, and in fact are entirely redundant and unnecessary, compared to a fry cook or Amazon tier1 employes.
I don’t think you’re looking at this the right way.
It’s not that packing boxes isn’t a skilled job.
It’s that working at McDonald’s is a skilled job.
Any job that requires a non-zero level of training (which is all of them) is a skilled job. The idea of “unskilled labor” is one perpetuated by the bourgeois to justify paying some people a shit wage and keeping them poor.
As an electrician “unskilled labour” does exist. It’s effectively the classification for anyone who can be trained in under a day and is thus replaceable. Unlike “skilled trades” who can take years of training and are not immediately replaceable.
These jobs are essential on site but their inherent replaceability keeps wages rock bottom due to competition at the bottom of the pay scale.
Examples are the “gopher” who fetches material, holds ladders, passes tools etc. Usually a young guy. Often this job only exists if there are no apprentices around, and is your foot in the door for apprentice if you show any initiative and aptitude.
Then there are the “goon jobs” like wheelbarrow pushing, unloading trucks or rough shovel work. These jobs have the worst ratio of meager pay to hard work possible, and in general suck ass and should be avoided at all cost. Honestly I don’t know why anyone shows up for these, I would rather pick up cans or bum for spare change
rock bottom wages
Although it can probably be agreed that Australia is an outlier for low wages, noting that we need more people to fill jobs, and that is the driver behind such high wages.
12 years ago I overheard someone who could not have been more than 20 years of age saying they wouldn’t work for less than $80/hour. That was in the middle of a mining boom when 10,000 people a week were moving west because the wages were higher than what many could obtain with a degree. School teachers, nurses etc were quitting their jobs to work in the mining sector.
The only requirement is a white card which you can now obtain online for less than $50 and a few hours of your time.
You seem determined to construct distinctions merely for the sake of distinctions existing.
These distinctions come about organically though. If you work with a crew of people doing tasks that require a lot of experience to do well, like cutting metal precisely, you will notice quickly who has that experience and who doesn’t. Specialization of trades came about naturally as societies progressed. Not all tasks need to be so precise or require training. The issue I think with the distinction is when people are not paid enough to live for a job, when their tasks are just as essential to the completion of the project as those making much more. Many jobs that are ‘unskilled’ were also ‘essential’ during the lock down phase of the pandemic. I agree with your point that the language we use is important, by calling these ‘low’ tasks unskilled it helps excuse the unfair pay.
The inherent attributes of certain skills, or kinds of labor, surely express natural distinctions, and their importance is supported by the quite robust tendency within society for the emergence of specialization.
However, the deeper structures of categorization and classification, as emphasized in the particular comment, are more dubious respecting any genuine meaning or validity, and certainly may tend to confer harm to those on whom have been imposed less prestigious ranks.
Well yes and no. I mean, there are no interviews at Amazon, like if you can show up, have an ID, and can communicate in virtually any language, they will find a job for you… I just don’t consider that skilled labor in the same sense as being a plumber or engineer or teacher, where you really need to study and know specific things before you can competently perform the work.
I mean, sure being able to walk and read and use your hands are skills, but really basic level.
And that’s why it’s not up to you, because you completely missed the point :)
Working as a teacher or engineer relates very weakly to academic study, and very strongly to the interaction between innate talents and practical experience.
There’s no such thing as unskilled labor.
Why do think that learning things is different from gaining skills?