• @[email protected]
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        31 year ago

        Cars are not technically necessary. But we regulate them heavily - through licensing, safety tests, and policing. And your license can be pulled or suspended so that you cannot drive.

        Why? Because they are deadly. Just because something isn’t created to kill (say… To protect your family? To get you to your job?) doesn’t mean it can’t kill.

        Sadly, we live in a country where freedom and rights are valued more than community and respect.

        But as the welcome to nightvale NRA says: “Guns don’t kill people. We’re all invincible and it’s a miracle.” (Podcast.)

      • @lennybird
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        1 year ago

        And any dumbass who tries to equate the two to justify mass firearm proliferation, just tell them to defend their homes with cars and knives just the same.

        Then they’ll raise their hands and go, “whoa whoa, hey now…”

      • @[email protected]
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        1 year ago

        I mean, a part of me would sooner say “yes, they are both needlessly dangerous and costly to society, which is why a society structured around needing and allowing either mass guns or cars is stupid.”

          • @[email protected]
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            31 year ago

            The US has more car deaths than anywhere else in the world, by far. Like guns, it’s a real “This is not preventable, says only country where this happens” vibe.

            Some cars will always be necessary. The crazy delusional obsession with car dependence that happens literally nowhere else in the world is not necessary.

              • @[email protected]
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                -21 year ago

                Very similar to a gun advocate. It’s what you’re used to and you’ve already made up your mind, actual arguments or evidence be damned.

                  • @[email protected]
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                    11 year ago

                    Based on what? I’ve given actual arguments and you haven’t. What a bad faith response.

                    My claim is modest: there are easily preventable harms to both widespread use of guns and cars, evidenced by the fact that the US is a HUGE outlier in both.

      • @[email protected]
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        1 year ago

        I’m not pro-gun, or pro-car, or anything that is a detriment to society. I vote progressively, donate to digital rights groups, and contribute money and code to open source projects. I believe in a better world.

        Okay, with that out of the way, I’m looking for an argument I can use against a gun owner to tell them that they should not own a gun.

        School shootings and dead kids is somehow not enough to convince them, because of the claim that its a minority of reckless users who are the problem. I am looking for other arguments I can use, and I will question arguments that seem weak or inconsistent to me.

        Apologies if the car argument is often used by them, it came to me on the spur of the moment. Clearly it was a bad argument.

        • @[email protected]
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          1 year ago

          I’m looking for an argument I can use against a gun owner to tell them that they should not own a gun.

          I don’t think there is a universal argument against it that will work with everyone. Find out why they actually want a gun (not what they tell others on the surface) and check if there is a way they can get what they need without it.

          If they have a gun because it makes them feel more “manly” then no argument will help, telling them they don’t need a gun to be a man could. If they feel insecure and threatened, helping them to find other ways to feel secure and safe again will help. It could be group pressure, it could be anything.

          If you can’t make them give away the gun, maybe you can make them put it behind a lock, gun and ammunition separated at least. That would keep everyone more save. Sometimes it is all one can do, but it would have hindered this accident to happen.

        • Square Singer
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          71 year ago

          That puts your original comment into perspective.

          I don’t think there is an argument that could convince someone who wears their gun like it’s a religion. They see that as part of their identity, and you can’t change that with simple logic.

            • @[email protected]
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              31 year ago

              Change almost never comes from the outside. You have to want to change. They have to put the pieces together themselves and many people just lack the required introspection.

              These folks get a hit of dopamine from guns. That’s hard to fight against with logical argument.

            • Square Singer
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              31 year ago

              Everyone has their irrational topics where it’s hard or impossible to be reasoned with. The issue is that it’s really hard to spot that with yourself, because in one’s mind it all sounds reasonable.

              Many firm beliefs that everyone of us holds are not nearly as much backed by science than we actually believe.

        • @[email protected]
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          51 year ago

          My only gripe with what you said is that there are legitimately irresponsible drivers and irresponsible gun owners. I don’t think there’s anything you can say to most Americans who own a gun to get them to not. Guns are so tied to the American image, it’s not a tool, or a hobby…it’s a fetish, a symbol of belonging to the group.

          The car argument isn’t a bad one, but saying that everyone is responsible until they’re not is a falsehood.

          A better way to phrase it might be something along the lines of:
          Even responsible drivers can make an error, and a single error, one split second of inattentiveness, can destroy the lives of so many people. Now consider how many people are irresponsible drivers.

          • @[email protected]
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            51 year ago

            Even responsible drivers can make an error, and a single error, one split second of inattentiveness, can destroy the lives of so many people. Now consider how many people are irresponsible drivers.

            This is a good one to use, my thanks.

        • @SCB
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          21 year ago

          I’m looking for an argument I can use against a gun owner to tell them that they should not own a gu

          “No one is going to break into your suburban home, Steve. Quit being such a pussy.”

        • @[email protected]
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          21 year ago

          You’ll have to do it with work. No magic bullet on this one. I own zero firearms but I’m a staunch advocate for 2a and our right to self defense.

          A lot of people don’t have well thought out reasoning, but it’s cultural. I’m not saying they don’t think about it so much as they never thought to, because they don’t see those problems in their communities. They’ve been around firearms their whole life. When you go to a farm on a shooting day the old timers find the noobs and gently correct them. Problems get sorted quickly from those group experiences.

          So, you have to ask questions to sort out where they stand and to break down their ideas into something more concrete. You have to kinda neutrally get them to put thought into how they came to the ideas they have.

    • GladiusB
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      -11 year ago

      Are cars designed to kill people? Or are they used to kill people in extraordinary circumstances?