Beehaw didn’t defederate because .world is a cesspool. There were a handful of idiots trolling, using .world accounts (and sh.itjust.works), and Beehaw cut contact until the mod tools are up to the task.
Yes, the behaviour of a few hurt a large number of people, but they knew no better way to solve it. It’s also not a permanent defed, just a bandaid fix until the tools are better.
The entire value proposition of the fediverse is that you can defederate rather than being stuck under the same roof as you would on a centralized platform.
The only people I see complaining about this are on the defederated instances, the Beehaw users seem to be generally happy with the change.
…the Beehaw users seem to be generally happy with the change.
Maybe? I honestly don’t know, but it seems like it would be hard for them to tell…? If I understand things correctly, Beehaw defederates (what a word…) and now no one sees posts / communities from, say, sh.itjust.works, right? So no one really knows what they’re missing if they’re on Beehaw? Please correct me if I’m wrong, as that could easily be the case.
Federation is a two way street, and requires the link to be severed in both directions. The BeeHaw community won’t be able to see what’s posted by the communities they defederated, but unless those communities also defederated BeeHaw, they’ll still be able to see posts and comments from BeeHaw users.
In other words, if BeeHaw users were unhappy with the defederation (and willing to talk about it, of course) we could see them posting about it on kbin for example. I personally haven’t seen that though- their community was apparently pretty exclusive before, so it stands to reason they’d be happy with it continuing that way.
They are curating their instance in a particular way which is the very thing that the fediverse and lemmy allows for. Some people are butthurt that they aren’t included.
The slightly more detailed explanation is that there has been a big increase in bots and trolls and due to a lack of moderation tools they opted for defederating with instances that conflicted with their goal. That goal seems to be an easy going and tolerant community. By nature this goal means that it will be a smaller community and for some reason that has angered people.
They are curating their instance in a particular way which is the very thing that the fediverse and lemmy allows for. Some people are butthurt that they aren’t included.
They aren’t defederating everyone. They are selectively defederating the instances they don’t like. Or selectively federating the instances they do like. Which is exactly how the fediverse is meant to work.
If you like the instances they don’t like, or vice versa, then you should make your account on an instance other than theirs. Which is also how the fediverse is meant to work.
I don’t mind that they defederated a random Mastodon instance called “rapefeminists”. Almost all of these are from some list of bad Mastodon servers. Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works are the only controversial ones (and temporary)
Yes, but at some point you gotta ask the question why even be in the fediverse if you’re so picky about who you wanna federate with. I personally would want my instance to federate with everyone, I can pick what I want to see myself. But as I said, their decision.
Everyone is just by default assuming they want to be part of the fediverse, rather than they saw Lemmy as the most viable piece of software to realize the type of platform/community they’re want to create. They’ve made clear from the start that they want a more heavily moderated and curated community, and that is by definition going to be mean excluding people and instances that go against that.
I hate to see that people are so disturbed at what others are doing on another community@instance that simply blocking it on their account isn’t enough. Nonsensical. And the logical conclusion is producing nothing more than a Reddit clone with many of the same weaknesses.
Yeah they’re just doing it temporarily because their mod team can’t handle the influx of 60k bots and trolls over the course of a week with the current state of lemmy mod tools just because Reddit decided to off itself in a grand and public way.
But just like Reddit drama, feel free to make a judgement without the facts and spread rumors based on hearsay. It’ll really help them want to open back up ASAP when we’re all over here like “hurrr fuk u quitters durrrr”
Most people have no reason to care if a small instance decided to sail away.
They weren’t a small instance though. They had pretty much established all of the default subs and then when they had like the top 10 largest communities on all of Lemmy they decided to start threatening defederating servers, closed their registration, and taking the largest communities away from them. Pretty much right as Lemmy was starting to build up some momentum essentially the largest instance was like “time to establish dominance and flex our power”
They’ve apparently defederated from 400 servers and still have 4 of the top 10 largest communities. Like yeah defederation is a tool of Lemmy but their using it like a threat and now they are demanding other instances follow their lead if they want re-federated. Then they try to boohoo about how running the largest subs with 4 mods is infeasible with the current tools and that’s everyone else’s fault.
Like Lemmy is barely off the ground and there’s already power mods and they are already trying to control the whole thing.
I completely understand why people would want a tighter instance. I started using Reddit significantly less awhile ago because a good chunk of the content and comments were either misinformed, malicious, or both. I’m hopeful that large instances can foster friendlier and healthier cultures, but right now I’m seeing so many people willing to make excuses for assholes and blaming the people that don’t want to deal with those assholes.
I don’t know where I read that for a social network, the actual product is the moderation. If you manage to moderate well enough your social network, it may grow.
The problem is that for a large community there is no other way than having an army of mods to moderate stuff. And reddit mods are not paid so it ends up attracting some amount of power hungry people. That’s how they are paid, power.
So I definitely understand why a community would want to stay small. You can moderate a small instance with a tight team. Moderation will also stay more consistent since all mods know each other.
It’s probably about how beehaw defederated lemmy.world or something
Beehaw didn’t defederate because .world is a cesspool. There were a handful of idiots trolling, using .world accounts (and sh.itjust.works), and Beehaw cut contact until the mod tools are up to the task.
Yes, the behaviour of a few hurt a large number of people, but they knew no better way to solve it. It’s also not a permanent defed, just a bandaid fix until the tools are better.
I’m new to the fediverse, but isn’t it sort of shooting themselves in the foot to defederate the biggest instance so far?
Depends on what the goals of the instance admins are.
The entire value proposition of the fediverse is that you can defederate rather than being stuck under the same roof as you would on a centralized platform.
The only people I see complaining about this are on the defederated instances, the Beehaw users seem to be generally happy with the change.
Maybe? I honestly don’t know, but it seems like it would be hard for them to tell…? If I understand things correctly, Beehaw defederates (what a word…) and now no one sees posts / communities from, say, sh.itjust.works, right? So no one really knows what they’re missing if they’re on Beehaw? Please correct me if I’m wrong, as that could easily be the case.
Federation is a two way street, and requires the link to be severed in both directions. The BeeHaw community won’t be able to see what’s posted by the communities they defederated, but unless those communities also defederated BeeHaw, they’ll still be able to see posts and comments from BeeHaw users.
In other words, if BeeHaw users were unhappy with the defederation (and willing to talk about it, of course) we could see them posting about it on kbin for example. I personally haven’t seen that though- their community was apparently pretty exclusive before, so it stands to reason they’d be happy with it continuing that way.
No, Beehaw users don’t see any content posted by any member of the cutoff instances. These servers might as well not exist, for Beehaw users.
Isn’t that what I said?
I saw beehaw posts fine yesterday on .world
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Big instances are a positive in the sense that probably more people are willing to help maintain it
But it’s really bad in the sense that, technically, one person has ultimate power over all the communities and users on the instance
Spreading out is the most optimal, so that when one goes down (which has happened many times in the past) another can take its place.
Big == bad, and also partly the reason why these two instances got defederated
They did? What for?
They are curating their instance in a particular way which is the very thing that the fediverse and lemmy allows for. Some people are butthurt that they aren’t included.
The slightly more detailed explanation is that there has been a big increase in bots and trolls and due to a lack of moderation tools they opted for defederating with instances that conflicted with their goal. That goal seems to be an easy going and tolerant community. By nature this goal means that it will be a smaller community and for some reason that has angered people.
But we also are allowed to laugh at them, right?
Seems to me like they’re not really fit for the fediverse if they are just gonna defederate everyone, but whatever, they have every right to do it
They aren’t defederating everyone. They are selectively defederating the instances they don’t like. Or selectively federating the instances they do like. Which is exactly how the fediverse is meant to work.
If you like the instances they don’t like, or vice versa, then you should make your account on an instance other than theirs. Which is also how the fediverse is meant to work.
Well said.
They already defederate more than 400 instances https://beehaw.org/instances
Maybe they immediately defederate an instance if they don’t like some users
I don’t mind that they defederated a random Mastodon instance called “rapefeminists”. Almost all of these are from some list of bad Mastodon servers. Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works are the only controversial ones (and temporary)
The ability to defederate anyone is literally what defines federation. There is no “the fediverse” unilaterally, that’s the entire point.
Yes, but at some point you gotta ask the question why even be in the fediverse if you’re so picky about who you wanna federate with. I personally would want my instance to federate with everyone, I can pick what I want to see myself. But as I said, their decision.
Everyone is just by default assuming they want to be part of the fediverse, rather than they saw Lemmy as the most viable piece of software to realize the type of platform/community they’re want to create. They’ve made clear from the start that they want a more heavily moderated and curated community, and that is by definition going to be mean excluding people and instances that go against that.
I hate to see that people are so disturbed at what others are doing on another community@instance that simply blocking it on their account isn’t enough. Nonsensical. And the logical conclusion is producing nothing more than a Reddit clone with many of the same weaknesses.
Yeah they’re just doing it temporarily because their mod team can’t handle the influx of 60k bots and trolls over the course of a week with the current state of lemmy mod tools just because Reddit decided to off itself in a grand and public way.
But just like Reddit drama, feel free to make a judgement without the facts and spread rumors based on hearsay. It’ll really help them want to open back up ASAP when we’re all over here like “hurrr fuk u quitters durrrr”
Honestly, reading the comments of some out there regarding this issue. I’m starting to think that they did the right choice.
It doesn’t take long to find fairly rude or insulting content regarding this.
Most people have no reason to care if a small instance decided to sail away.
It’s disappointing because I think this platform is already turning into reddit in term of tone/aggressiveness.
And it’s not even just comments, it’s upvoting memes that are genuinely rude or targeting a specific community. I don’t like the way this is going.
They weren’t a small instance though. They had pretty much established all of the default subs and then when they had like the top 10 largest communities on all of Lemmy they decided to start threatening defederating servers, closed their registration, and taking the largest communities away from them. Pretty much right as Lemmy was starting to build up some momentum essentially the largest instance was like “time to establish dominance and flex our power”
They’ve apparently defederated from 400 servers and still have 4 of the top 10 largest communities. Like yeah defederation is a tool of Lemmy but their using it like a threat and now they are demanding other instances follow their lead if they want re-federated. Then they try to boohoo about how running the largest subs with 4 mods is infeasible with the current tools and that’s everyone else’s fault.
Like Lemmy is barely off the ground and there’s already power mods and they are already trying to control the whole thing.
397 of those are spammy Mastodon instances and 1 is Lemmygrad. You can just say they defederated from the 2 other biggest instances.
I completely understand why people would want a tighter instance. I started using Reddit significantly less awhile ago because a good chunk of the content and comments were either misinformed, malicious, or both. I’m hopeful that large instances can foster friendlier and healthier cultures, but right now I’m seeing so many people willing to make excuses for assholes and blaming the people that don’t want to deal with those assholes.
I don’t know where I read that for a social network, the actual product is the moderation. If you manage to moderate well enough your social network, it may grow.
The problem is that for a large community there is no other way than having an army of mods to moderate stuff. And reddit mods are not paid so it ends up attracting some amount of power hungry people. That’s how they are paid, power.
So I definitely understand why a community would want to stay small. You can moderate a small instance with a tight team. Moderation will also stay more consistent since all mods know each other.
It did a time ago btw, because Lemmy.world don’t gatekeep enough.
Can confirm, lemmy.world let me in. By the way, Is BeeHaw for hipsters. It sounds like it
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Ever been to squabbles.io? 😒 I tried to like it, but I can’t stand it.
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