More like setting up checkpoints between cities. Actively hunting for terrorists and launch sites and the return of settlers and settlements to Gaza. Hamas did it!
Well, you never saw an attack of this scale in the West Bank, where the IDF does have an extremely thorough presence. And you never saw this happen before the IDF withdrew from Gaza.
So, yes, you have sarcastically arrived at a true solution. Well done.
It’s amazing that people can see Apartheid and how it ended and never question Palestinian actions. Apartheid ended because there was a belief in a peaceful future. There’s no Mandela in Palestine that can convince the Israeli’s that giving up power would lead to peace. And after a 20 year experiment in self rule in Gaza failed; it’s hard to see the alternative.
Just fyi. Apartheid didn’t end because of peaceful protest.
The ANC had been peacefully opposing the Apartheid government. But that all ended after the Sharpeville massacre commited by the Apartheid government.
Then MK was formed ( uMkhonto we Sizwe). MK was the armed guerilla resistance that Mandela and the ANC saw was needed, because the Apartheid government wasn’t giving in to peaceful opposition of their government.
You’re probably confusing what people say was a ‘peaceful’ end to Apartheid because civil war was avoided.
And it was only truly avoided because the resistance had to make so many unfair concessions to the international liberal powers that be ( imf, the US etc.) and the Apartheid government. Otherwise the Apartheid government was gearing up to actually start mass murdering the non white population (aka genocide).
There truly are a lot of parallels between Apartheid south africa and israel
Exactly. People don’t want to accept it but i see a lot of parallels between MK and Qassam brigades as liberation armed struggle. When peaceful protest fails then violent opposition is inevitable.
And the PLA has rejected all 2 state solution offers, pays out a fund to the families of killed terrorists (including Hamas’ and is just as corrupt if not more corrupt than Hamas. Endorsed the 10/7 attacks. They’re not a potential partner for peace and have proven it over the last 40 years or so.
Like the other guy said, what ended Apartheid was the ANC’s violent resistance and international pressure.
Also the “experiment” in Gaza failed because Israel has blockaded Gaza exactly as long as Gaza has had self-rule (both started in September 2005). The Gazan economy was dependent on using the income from agricultural exports to import food and other life necessities. Then Israel came and just said no you can’t do that.
And two decades of indiscriminate rocket fire kept it going.
Then why wasn’t it lifted in 2008 or 2013? Israel signed ceasefires with Hamas then that stipulated the blockade would be lifted, and even though Hamas followed their end of the ceasefire it wasn’t lifted.
Also, then what was the “experiment” you were talking about? Whether a strip of land dependent on foreign trade can survive when cut off from the outside world?
During the initial week of the ceasefire, Islamic Jihad militants fired rockets on Israel. Under pressure from Hamas, Islamic Jihad had agreed to abide by the temporary truce, which was meant to apply only to Gaza, but had balked at the idea of not responding to Israeli military actions in the West Bank. The New York Times reported that the Islamic Jihad action broke the Hamas-Israeli Gaza truce.[3] During the next 5 months of the ceasefire, Gazan attacks decreased significantly for a total of 19 rocket and 18 mortar shell launchings,[3][4] compared to 1199 rockets and 1072 mortar shells in 2008 up to 19 June, a reduction of 98%.[5]
Pretty sure. A similar thing happened in 2013 too.
You have no right to land other people already live on, unless you buy it from them. Settlers have no rights. We’ve mixed past this since colonization.
No. I’m saying that when a conflict starts there is no “right” anymore in the colloquial sense. And while I can easily blame am aggressors in a conflict for removing the comfort of peace, it’s much harder to justify blaming the entity attacked for its response.
Eh, some of it. I won’t pretend to be an expert, but I’m pretty sure most American land was acquired by settlers simply marching in with guns and saying “We’re here now”. That’s to say nothing of the countless treaties that were signed and broken.
I don’t exactly think the Osage were contacted about the Louisiana Purchase.
yeah, but different words have different implications and connotations. We say settlers, and that word doesn’t hit as hard as colonizers or oppressors, even though they all pretty much mean the same thing.
Well since 2004/2005 there have been zero Palestinian homes or land stolen by Israeli’s in Gaza. And as a result 100k+ rockets, the world’s largest suicide bombing campaign and endless militant attacks have come out of the territory. So from am Israeli perspective, if those things stop; even if it means that a few Palestinians get kicked out of their homes, it’s a win.
More like setting up checkpoints between cities. Actively hunting for terrorists and launch sites and the return of settlers and settlements to Gaza. Hamas did it!
deleted by creator
Well, you never saw an attack of this scale in the West Bank, where the IDF does have an extremely thorough presence. And you never saw this happen before the IDF withdrew from Gaza.
So, yes, you have sarcastically arrived at a true solution. Well done.
deleted by creator
It’s amazing that people can see Apartheid and how it ended and never question Palestinian actions. Apartheid ended because there was a belief in a peaceful future. There’s no Mandela in Palestine that can convince the Israeli’s that giving up power would lead to peace. And after a 20 year experiment in self rule in Gaza failed; it’s hard to see the alternative.
Just fyi. Apartheid didn’t end because of peaceful protest.
The ANC had been peacefully opposing the Apartheid government. But that all ended after the Sharpeville massacre commited by the Apartheid government.
Then MK was formed ( uMkhonto we Sizwe). MK was the armed guerilla resistance that Mandela and the ANC saw was needed, because the Apartheid government wasn’t giving in to peaceful opposition of their government.
You’re probably confusing what people say was a ‘peaceful’ end to Apartheid because civil war was avoided.
And it was only truly avoided because the resistance had to make so many unfair concessions to the international liberal powers that be ( imf, the US etc.) and the Apartheid government. Otherwise the Apartheid government was gearing up to actually start mass murdering the non white population (aka genocide).
There truly are a lot of parallels between Apartheid south africa and israel
don’t forget, the MK was also considered a terrorist organization.
Exactly. People don’t want to accept it but i see a lot of parallels between MK and Qassam brigades as liberation armed struggle. When peaceful protest fails then violent opposition is inevitable.
The problem is that there’s no peaceful organization saying “yes two state solution” or “yes one integrated, non-religious state”.
Weaker violence only works if there’s a weaker peaceful option.
Uh… The PNA?
I think you mean PLA.
And the PLA has rejected all 2 state solution offers, pays out a fund to the families of killed terrorists (including Hamas’ and is just as corrupt if not more corrupt than Hamas. Endorsed the 10/7 attacks. They’re not a potential partner for peace and have proven it over the last 40 years or so.
Like the other guy said, what ended Apartheid was the ANC’s violent resistance and international pressure.
Also the “experiment” in Gaza failed because Israel has blockaded Gaza exactly as long as Gaza has had self-rule (both started in September 2005). The Gazan economy was dependent on using the income from agricultural exports to import food and other life necessities. Then Israel came and just said no you can’t do that.
The world’s largest ever suicide bombing campaign started that blockade. And two decades of indiscriminate rocket fire kept it going.
The Iron Dome isn’t magic. It can only intercept so many projectiles. No blockade and Gaza is recoccuoied in 2008.
Then why wasn’t it lifted in 2008 or 2013? Israel signed ceasefires with Hamas then that stipulated the blockade would be lifted, and even though Hamas followed their end of the ceasefire it wasn’t lifted.
Also, then what was the “experiment” you were talking about? Whether a strip of land dependent on foreign trade can survive when cut off from the outside world?
Because they kept firing rockets. 2008
Pretty sure. A similar thing happened in 2013 too.
You have no right to land other people already live on, unless you buy it from them. Settlers have no rights. We’ve mixed past this since colonization.
If peace can’t be sustained, might makes right unfortunately.
So, you’re telling me that Israel is doing the right thing simply because they’re stronger?
No. I’m saying that when a conflict starts there is no “right” anymore in the colloquial sense. And while I can easily blame am aggressors in a conflict for removing the comfort of peace, it’s much harder to justify blaming the entity attacked for its response.
A huge amount of Israel’s land was legally purchased during the late Ottoman era and the later British Mandate. We have plenty of records.
So was the land that the US “bought” off of the indigenous tribes. Doesn’t make it right. Certainly doesn’t justify an ethnic cleansing.
Eh, some of it. I won’t pretend to be an expert, but I’m pretty sure most American land was acquired by settlers simply marching in with guns and saying “We’re here now”. That’s to say nothing of the countless treaties that were signed and broken.
I don’t exactly think the Osage were contacted about the Louisiana Purchase.
Well we’re Americans we didn’t march, we rolled in on a wagon.
settlerscolonizersSynonymous
yeah, but different words have different implications and connotations. We say settlers, and that word doesn’t hit as hard as colonizers or oppressors, even though they all pretty much mean the same thing.
In fairness colonizers just sounds silly. Just like most words with a “z” in it.
This will go well 🥴
No it likely won’t go well. But it doesn’t really need to go well. It just needs to go better.
what needs to go better? Israelis stealing Palestinian land and homes?
Well since 2004/2005 there have been zero Palestinian homes or land stolen by Israeli’s in Gaza. And as a result 100k+ rockets, the world’s largest suicide bombing campaign and endless militant attacks have come out of the territory. So from am Israeli perspective, if those things stop; even if it means that a few Palestinians get kicked out of their homes, it’s a win.
Fascist scum.
Probably settlements like east bank.
Sounds like apartheid to me.