Death threats too? Shouting fire in a crowded theater?
Again, this speech reduces freedom, has no meaningful utility, and very directly leads to, encourages, and spreads the violence - with all this in mind, it’s unfathomable to me that anyone would defend it.
Outside the disagreement, I’ll also say I’m pretty wary of free speech absolutists - I can’t speak for you, but they tend to drop their principles the moment someone says something they don’t like - see Musk for an example of this.
A famously incorrect example of unprotected speech. It actually is protected speech, it’s just a catchy phrase that people never seem to look into beyond a surface level.
it’s unfathomable to me that anyone would defend it
Because at least half of the country I live in would love nothing more to apply these same ideas of restricting the flow of ideas and speech to me. To their mind, my liberal lefty atheistic ideals are diametrically opposed to their world view. To their understanding of the world, I’m actively making the world a worse place just by being in it. I have actively benefited from the freedom of thought and speech that I support while growing up in a deep red and deeply religious small town.
What you should be asking yourself is why these abhorrent ideas get any traction at all. The public square should be filled with good ideas. Put your ideas out for how to make society better. Put out your critique and world view. The speech you hate so much should be drowned out by all the good speech. The fact that it’s not, and has garnered any sort of appeal points to a failure on society’s part, writ large. We have an obligation to push society forward and be proactive in guiding society where we want it to go. Like I said in another comment, the hearts of men can’t be legislated away; they have to be won.
We clearly have different philosophies on the value of freedom of thought. I don’t think we’re going to get anywhere with this.
It’s super-weird that you’d defer to what’s legal when you’re asked if something is moral - particularly when you imply there’s a risk legislation will turn against you at some point.
There’s a bunch of reasons bad ideas circulate, but they’re generally a product of the interests of those with economic/political power. That’s a far broader, more difficult issue to solve than the proliferation of genocidal ideologies.
You want this problem solved?
Here’s the definition of genocide (the UN one works fine).
Genocidal groups are now outlawed.
As far as organised crime goes, there’s not really a higher bar, is there? The likes of BLM that you cited earlier don’t meet this bar - not by a long shot.
Death threats too? Shouting fire in a crowded theater?
Again, this speech reduces freedom, has no meaningful utility, and very directly leads to, encourages, and spreads the violence - with all this in mind, it’s unfathomable to me that anyone would defend it.
Outside the disagreement, I’ll also say I’m pretty wary of free speech absolutists - I can’t speak for you, but they tend to drop their principles the moment someone says something they don’t like - see Musk for an example of this.
Criminal threats are typically actionable. They indicate a concrete act is intended.
A famously incorrect example of unprotected speech. It actually is protected speech, it’s just a catchy phrase that people never seem to look into beyond a surface level.
Because at least half of the country I live in would love nothing more to apply these same ideas of restricting the flow of ideas and speech to me. To their mind, my liberal lefty atheistic ideals are diametrically opposed to their world view. To their understanding of the world, I’m actively making the world a worse place just by being in it. I have actively benefited from the freedom of thought and speech that I support while growing up in a deep red and deeply religious small town.
What you should be asking yourself is why these abhorrent ideas get any traction at all. The public square should be filled with good ideas. Put your ideas out for how to make society better. Put out your critique and world view. The speech you hate so much should be drowned out by all the good speech. The fact that it’s not, and has garnered any sort of appeal points to a failure on society’s part, writ large. We have an obligation to push society forward and be proactive in guiding society where we want it to go. Like I said in another comment, the hearts of men can’t be legislated away; they have to be won.
We clearly have different philosophies on the value of freedom of thought. I don’t think we’re going to get anywhere with this.
It’s super-weird that you’d defer to what’s legal when you’re asked if something is moral - particularly when you imply there’s a risk legislation will turn against you at some point.
There’s a bunch of reasons bad ideas circulate, but they’re generally a product of the interests of those with economic/political power. That’s a far broader, more difficult issue to solve than the proliferation of genocidal ideologies.
You want this problem solved?
Here’s the definition of genocide (the UN one works fine).
Genocidal groups are now outlawed.
As far as organised crime goes, there’s not really a higher bar, is there? The likes of BLM that you cited earlier don’t meet this bar - not by a long shot.