So, before I get started, I just want to firmly lay out my own personal support for Ukraine. I’ve been banned from lemmy.ml communities before just for saying Slava Ukraini. I do my utmost to assist the Ukrainian cause, from cheering their victories to talking to other Americans about the importance of the war there. I’ve picked my side, on purpose, and I’m at peace with it.

That said, I can’t help but notice a slow shift in the tone of Russo-Ukrainian War information spaces that severely disturbs me.

The liberal west is based around a set of values. Freedom, mainly, that’s the “liberty” at the heart of “liberal”. Unless it’s hurting someone else, everyone should, as much as we can manage, be free to do as they wish. This leads us to do things in a certain way, and it’s “that way” that we use to look for and identify our friends.

Many people over the decades have tried to drag us down, paint us out to be just as bad as everyone else. While we certainly make mistakes, I think you have to look no further than our domestic strife and what each side is fighting for, to see that this love of freedom and life is still strong. Free speech, very important. Freedom to be gay, also very important. Liberty, freedom. Do as you wish, and leave other people that same freedom.

So, what I’ve been seeing that disturbs me so, is a slow shift in the tone of pro-Ukrainian voices towards a greater hopelessness and despair. A larger amount of censorship and banning here on Lemmy, but also in other places. A greater emphasis on the fear and violence of war, which is replacing and supplanting the admirable courage and hope that was so powerful in the initial days of the war.

I hate to say this, but it’s starting to look from an outside perspective that … maybe we were wrong, maybe the Ukrainians are not actually all that different from the Russians.

I personally refuse to believe this. I think the trials and horrors of war are simply wearing them down, and that’s why I’m making this post.

I hope everyone remembers, we live in a hard reality, combating not just Russian influence, but our own domestic problems trying to turn us into another Russia. We cannot allow this to happen, and the first line of defense against it is found in our own courage, our own heart.

I would remind everyone that the most effective weapon the Russians have is their information warfare, that splits us from our countrymen and allies in good old fashioned divide-and-conquer. They can pretend to be us, they are smart enough to do this, and they can cleverly wreck our morale from within. We must fight this. What fights it is courage and freedom, two things that build morale in others, instead of tearing it down.

To quote a famous American: “Give me Liberty, or give me Death.” Those are the options Patrick Henry considered. “Just do what it takes to survive.” is not listed. This is the American heart, so strong it even gets turned against us in the form of domestic, American terrorism–Americans killing Americans. It’s not perfect and it’s not pretty. And, if anyone wants to join us from authoritarian control, they’ll find that blood and suffering is involved to get to it, and does not disappear once you arrive. The rewards, though, of having a non-totalitarian ruler, are worth it.

Keep the faith my friends, long, gruelling wars with setbacks can still be won. We can someday see peace and freedom, it is possible. Just not for all Ukrainians. This is actual hard reality, accepting the unfairness of the world, and dying for it anyway.

Personally, I was losing hope myself, about 2 years ago. One single man actually turned that around for me. Zelensky, and his courage, and the powerful Ukrainian heart he seemed to awaken. Don’t let the Russians drag his name through the mud, he doesn’t deserve it. Don’t let other Ukrainians act like orcs, they can do better. We must not be like the Russians, otherwise we deserve no better than the lives they get.

Slava Ukraini.

  • @CandelestineOPEnglish
    -2•1 year ago

    So, it’s not Ukraine that is attacking NATO, it is people in grassroots spaces. We Americans use the word “grassroots” to describe the way ideas spread from person to person, through things like gossip. It is a very powerful force in our politics, that we carefully watch. It helps determine how people may vote. Note, I said I think it’s Russians sparking it, but it’s becoming more common in pro-Ukrainian information spaces. Youtube, here, reddit are the places I’ve started to see it. I think it should be stopped early. If you scroll through the comments sections of the other big Russo-Ukrainian Lemmy community, you’ll probably see what I mean though. I was actually banned there today for asking for a rules clarification, as no rules are posted for the community specifically, which is what got me thinking about all this information war stuff.

    Regarding recruits, Ukraine is under martial law. Volunteers will be insufficient to combat an army as large as Russia’s, so conscription will be necessary. I have seen no indications anywhere that insufficient people are available, though, no reporting that such-and-such unit could not be raised due to lack of people. Training sometimes, equipment sometimes yes, but not people.

    Note, I did not say Ukrainians are just like Russians. I said “don’t be”. My message is not “Ukraine bad”. It is “I’m worried about my friends.” The difference is very important.

    I don’t actually think you are Russian, I said what I did mainly because you attacked me, when I did not attack Ukraine. I described how things are starting to appear to an outside observer. This helps Ukraine, by allowing them to fix a danger early, before it causes harm. I do not actually think you are Russian, but if we are both pro-Ukrainian, then us fighting only helps them.

    Please try to pay attention to my details. The specifics of what I am trying to say are very important. This is not a simple thing that is simple to understand. It’s us defending against information warfare.

    Slava Ukraini. I am on your side, if you are on Ukraine’s side. I can still say hurtful things about my friends though, if I think it’s important enough. Which I do. Our own politics are an absolute clusterfuck, and we need your help too.

    Not you specifically, but Ukraine’s help. To keep that nobility that people admire and will make sacrifices of their own for.

    • lusterko
      3•1 year ago

      So, it’s not Ukraine that is attacking NATO, it is people in grassroots spaces

      People in grassroots don’t represent Ukraine. Some of them might say something stupid, some of them might be russians spreading misinformation. This shouldn’t lead you to thinking “Ukrainians might not be that different from russians”.

      I don’t actually think you are Russian, I said what I did mainly because you attacked me, when I did not attack Ukraine. I described how things are starting to appear to an outside observer. This helps Ukraine, by allowing them to fix a danger early, before it causes harm. I do not actually think you are Russian, but if we are both pro-Ukrainian, then us fighting only helps them.

      I am offended by your comparison of Ukrainians to russians. I’m sure if you were a Pole during WWII you wouldn’t like being compared to nazis either. You have attacked Ukraine by your accusations of bloodlust, threats and willingness to employ fear. Ukraine can’t fix what random people are saying on the internet. I’m not fighting against you, I’m fighting against your wording, because it does seem like you are accusing Ukraine.

      Slava Ukraini. I am on your side, if you are on Ukraine’s side. I can still say hurtful things about my friends though, if I think it’s important enough. Which I do. Our own politics are an absolute clusterfuck, and we need your help too.

      Most of us are extremely thankful to everything US is doing. Yes, we’re also worried and paying attention to everything that happens in the US politics too.

      Regarding recruits, Ukraine is under martial law. Volunteers will be insufficient to combat an army as large as Russia’s, so conscription will be necessary. I have seen no indications anywhere that insufficient people are available, though, no reporting that such-and-such unit could not be raised due to lack of people. Training sometimes, equipment sometimes yes, but not people.

      There is an ongoing conscription/mobilisation, but it is insufficient as far as I know. I don’t expect you to know about every problem that we currently have. I’m following the war very closely, and spend hours every day watching/reading/listening about everything that’s going on. Lately a lot of military people talk about the lack of personnel in the interviews and on podcasts.

      I agree that we shouldn’t fight since we are on the same side, but we shouldn’t accuse each other of something that we haven’t done either. Ukrainian internet is full of russians/pro-ru trying to sow dissent, and we’re living with that for past 10 years. I don’t really know if there is a good way to fight against it. Currently it’s important to learn how to recognize it.

      • @CandelestineOPEnglish
        0•1 year ago

        I do understand that I could have worded that in a better way, I apologize for my sloppiness and the offense it caused.

        For the record, it is because Ukraine and Russia are different that I support Ukraine. I am merely afraid myself, of that changing under the bloody horror of war. Bloody horror is what made Russians into Russians in the first place, and it could even happen to us Americans.