Your post just reminded me of this great song. When I heard it a few years ago and heard the line “i use the magick to glo”, I had no idea what it meant, but now everything in that song makes so much sense, hilariously so.
Anyways, your post brings up the whole “world-sharing” topic; whether or not there actually are any “other beings”, in the way you speak of them. I like to think of myself as just an open space of awareness, as shown in this model.
In regards to others, I wouldn’t assume that anything other than what you’ve experienced yourself has any kind of agency or awareness separate from you. Maybe “others” are given a sort of artificial awareness, to make the illusion more convincing, but ultimately, I wouldn’t spend much time or effort worrying about others, that sort of goes against the whole “subjective experience” viewpoint. I would ask /u/mindseal for his/her take on “others” but I think it’s best just to treat experience like a RPG game (here’s another model relating to that idea)
Originally commented by u/WrongStar on 2017-09-25 09:22:49 (dngmdqx)
“i use the magick to glo”, I had no idea what it meant, but now everything in that song makes so much sense, hilariously so.
lmao
I wouldn’t assume that anything other than what you’ve experienced yourself has any kind of agency or awareness separate from you. Maybe “others” are given a sort of artificial awareness, to make the illusion more convincing, but ultimately, I wouldn’t spend much time or effort worrying about others
That’s one perspective you could take. However the thing about subjective idealism is one has the choice to choose what they want to experience. I’m currently dabbling in solipsism but I see it as a tool, a means to an end or even just an experiment out of pure curiosity. Once I reach my final state, I’ll probably drop it.
Solipsism isn’t your only option. If you wanted to, you could choose to experience other “minds” just like yourself, with their own agency and will, completely independent of yourself.
If one mind can arise within awareness, why can’t two or more exist? The awareness that embodies these minds is the same awareness, and this is the awareness or “open space” you are identifying with. If you’ve ever had a dream of being a different person, you might realize that the awareness of it is constant throughout both waking, deep sleep and dream life. That awareness never changes. However the content of the experience will be different and that content can dictate whether you feel like entity 1 or entity 204.
So if entity 1 can have agency, couldn’t entity 204 also have agency as well? What is stopping both entity 1 and entity 204 from existing simultaneously, seeing as both arise in awareness? Solipsism may feel absolute when you identify entity 1 as being the only mind or intelligence arising in awareness. But what law states that only one mind/intelligence can arise in awareness? Why should awareness only experience itself through one mind?
I probably didn’t explain it well, but this link explains it much better.
Another thing to think about. Think back to when you were still a hardcore physicalist, viewing other minds as being 100% real. Would you say your current view somehow renders that invalid?
If you think about yourself as the person you were 8 years ago (assuming you were a hardcore phyiscalist then), then the people that existed were 100% real to you. You treated them as real and in your mind, they were real people, real minds with their own agency.
So you do have options here. You can choose to believe that solipsism was always real, regardless of what you thought about others in the past. Or you can choose to voluntarily adopt solipsism as a tool which might imply that you somehow shifted away from these “other minds”. I wrote this in a hurry, so there might be some things not worded properly, I’ll try and fix it later if they exist.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-25 12:03:21 (dngu1z3)
Well, I’m not exactly a subscriber to solipsism (first time hearing the term). I’m still a bit new to all this so was just trying bounce some ideas around and see what other views there are.
But if we understand the idea that reality is consciousness/awareness taking the form of experiences, then we really can’t stray too far off from the truth. That being, the only fundamental truth is awareness itself. Everything else under the umbrella of possibility is true/false in a relative sense. So, things like what we are talking about now, come down to choice. Whether or not it’s one we remember or a long forgotten one of the past, it still is a choice. Re-reading what you wrote at the end there, I’m seeing that we’re ultimately saying the same thing :)
Also in regards to Rupert Spira, I’m wondering if you’ve ever heard of Greg Goode as well. His books ‘Standing as Awareness’ and ‘The Direct Path’ got me started on all this, and that’s what connected me to Rupert Spira. I even see he’s listed in the ‘friends’ tab of the website you linked, so if you’re looking for a good read, check him out
Originally commented by u/WrongStar on 2017-09-26 21:28:01 (dniz6do)
That being, the only fundamental truth is awareness itself. Everything else under the umbrella of possibility is true/false in a relative sense. So, things like what we are talking about now, come down to choice.
I agree. There’s a lot of choices and options available to you and that’s the beauty of it.
ever heard of Greg Goode as well. His books ‘Standing as Awareness’ and ‘The Direct Path’ got me started on all this,
Ah yeah, Greg Goode is a boss. I’ve read his “Standing as Awareness” book but I’ve not read his “Direct Path”. Really helpful book though, his explanations are cutting edge and very easy to understand. In fact I should probably check out his “Direct Path” book for a quick mental brush up.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-26 22:43:42 (dnj1o84)
That’s one perspective you could take. However the thing about subjective idealism is one has the choice to choose what they want to experience. I’m currently dabbling in solipsism but I see it as a tool, a means to an end or even just an experiment out of pure curiosity. Once I reach my final state, I’ll probably drop it.
Solipsism isn’t your only option. If you wanted to, you could choose to experience other “minds” just like yourself, with their own agency and will, completely independent of yourself.
I emphatically agree with all this.
The whole point of subjective idealism is to broaden the awareness of the various possible intents one could engage in. It’s to open up the horizon, or to point out a sky beyond the sky. If someone walks away thinking “solipsism is the only way” then I am afraid they completely missed the boat. Subjective idealism allows for solipsism and in some specific ways solipsism is powerful, but if it becomes restricted to only solipsism that in my view is no longer the real subjective idealism anymore. Subjective idealism is a more general understanding that intents produce experiential results. That’s it. If one intends to relate to experience as purely private, there is a concomitant experiential range for that, and one can cultivate insights and skills inside that range. But just as easily a person can intend that there are minds, spaces or even things outside themselves and that they’re independent, and in accordance with that intent, there is also a corresponding experiential range. It is possible to cultivate insights and skills inside those ranges.
The only common denominator for subjective idealism is that you cannot claim that you’re irrelevant in the manner your experience happens. So if a subjective idealist intends to experience an independent space of some sort, and they’re saying it’s only independent because they intend that it is and will relate to it in that way, then they’re a true subjective idealist still. So as long as one acknowledges that experience is profoundly volitional in an intimate sense, one is a subjective idealist already. From there the field is wide open as to how specifically curate one’s own willing/knowing/experiencing.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-09-25 12:19:02 (dnguu6r)
Your post just reminded me of this great song. When I heard it a few years ago and heard the line “i use the magick to glo”, I had no idea what it meant, but now everything in that song makes so much sense, hilariously so.
Anyways, your post brings up the whole “world-sharing” topic; whether or not there actually are any “other beings”, in the way you speak of them. I like to think of myself as just an open space of awareness, as shown in this model.
In regards to others, I wouldn’t assume that anything other than what you’ve experienced yourself has any kind of agency or awareness separate from you. Maybe “others” are given a sort of artificial awareness, to make the illusion more convincing, but ultimately, I wouldn’t spend much time or effort worrying about others, that sort of goes against the whole “subjective experience” viewpoint. I would ask /u/mindseal for his/her take on “others” but I think it’s best just to treat experience like a RPG game (here’s another model relating to that idea)
Originally commented by u/WrongStar on 2017-09-25 09:22:49 (dngmdqx)
lmao
That’s one perspective you could take. However the thing about subjective idealism is one has the choice to choose what they want to experience. I’m currently dabbling in solipsism but I see it as a tool, a means to an end or even just an experiment out of pure curiosity. Once I reach my final state, I’ll probably drop it.
Solipsism isn’t your only option. If you wanted to, you could choose to experience other “minds” just like yourself, with their own agency and will, completely independent of yourself.
If one mind can arise within awareness, why can’t two or more exist? The awareness that embodies these minds is the same awareness, and this is the awareness or “open space” you are identifying with. If you’ve ever had a dream of being a different person, you might realize that the awareness of it is constant throughout both waking, deep sleep and dream life. That awareness never changes. However the content of the experience will be different and that content can dictate whether you feel like entity 1 or entity 204.
So if entity 1 can have agency, couldn’t entity 204 also have agency as well? What is stopping both entity 1 and entity 204 from existing simultaneously, seeing as both arise in awareness? Solipsism may feel absolute when you identify entity 1 as being the only mind or intelligence arising in awareness. But what law states that only one mind/intelligence can arise in awareness? Why should awareness only experience itself through one mind?
I probably didn’t explain it well, but this link explains it much better.
Another thing to think about. Think back to when you were still a hardcore physicalist, viewing other minds as being 100% real. Would you say your current view somehow renders that invalid?
If you think about yourself as the person you were 8 years ago (assuming you were a hardcore phyiscalist then), then the people that existed were 100% real to you. You treated them as real and in your mind, they were real people, real minds with their own agency.
So you do have options here. You can choose to believe that solipsism was always real, regardless of what you thought about others in the past. Or you can choose to voluntarily adopt solipsism as a tool which might imply that you somehow shifted away from these “other minds”. I wrote this in a hurry, so there might be some things not worded properly, I’ll try and fix it later if they exist.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-25 12:03:21 (dngu1z3)
Well, I’m not exactly a subscriber to solipsism (first time hearing the term). I’m still a bit new to all this so was just trying bounce some ideas around and see what other views there are.
But if we understand the idea that reality is consciousness/awareness taking the form of experiences, then we really can’t stray too far off from the truth. That being, the only fundamental truth is awareness itself. Everything else under the umbrella of possibility is true/false in a relative sense. So, things like what we are talking about now, come down to choice. Whether or not it’s one we remember or a long forgotten one of the past, it still is a choice. Re-reading what you wrote at the end there, I’m seeing that we’re ultimately saying the same thing :)
Also in regards to Rupert Spira, I’m wondering if you’ve ever heard of Greg Goode as well. His books ‘Standing as Awareness’ and ‘The Direct Path’ got me started on all this, and that’s what connected me to Rupert Spira. I even see he’s listed in the ‘friends’ tab of the website you linked, so if you’re looking for a good read, check him out
Originally commented by u/WrongStar on 2017-09-26 21:28:01 (dniz6do)
I agree. There’s a lot of choices and options available to you and that’s the beauty of it.
Ah yeah, Greg Goode is a boss. I’ve read his “Standing as Awareness” book but I’ve not read his “Direct Path”. Really helpful book though, his explanations are cutting edge and very easy to understand. In fact I should probably check out his “Direct Path” book for a quick mental brush up.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-26 22:43:42 (dnj1o84)
I emphatically agree with all this.
The whole point of subjective idealism is to broaden the awareness of the various possible intents one could engage in. It’s to open up the horizon, or to point out a sky beyond the sky. If someone walks away thinking “solipsism is the only way” then I am afraid they completely missed the boat. Subjective idealism allows for solipsism and in some specific ways solipsism is powerful, but if it becomes restricted to only solipsism that in my view is no longer the real subjective idealism anymore. Subjective idealism is a more general understanding that intents produce experiential results. That’s it. If one intends to relate to experience as purely private, there is a concomitant experiential range for that, and one can cultivate insights and skills inside that range. But just as easily a person can intend that there are minds, spaces or even things outside themselves and that they’re independent, and in accordance with that intent, there is also a corresponding experiential range. It is possible to cultivate insights and skills inside those ranges.
The only common denominator for subjective idealism is that you cannot claim that you’re irrelevant in the manner your experience happens. So if a subjective idealist intends to experience an independent space of some sort, and they’re saying it’s only independent because they intend that it is and will relate to it in that way, then they’re a true subjective idealist still. So as long as one acknowledges that experience is profoundly volitional in an intimate sense, one is a subjective idealist already. From there the field is wide open as to how specifically curate one’s own willing/knowing/experiencing.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-09-25 12:19:02 (dnguu6r)
Agreed.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-25 21:08:11 (dnh93ju)