@ernest how do I report a Magazin on kbin.social ? There is a usere called “ps” who is posting to his own “antiwoke” Magazin on kbin.social. Please remove this and dont give them a chance to etablish them self on kbin.social. When I report his stuff it will go to him because he is the moderator of the magazin? Seems like a problem. Screenshot of the “antiwoke” Magazin /sub on kbin.social. 4 Headlines are visible, 2 exampels: “Time to reject the extrem trans lobby harming our society” “How to end wokeness” #Moderation #kbin #kbin.social 📎

edit: dont feed the troll, im shure ernest will delet them all when he sees this. report and move on.

Edit 2 : Ernest responded:
“I just need a little more time. There will likely be a technical break announced tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. Along with the migration to new servers, we will be introducing new moderation tools that I am currently working on and testing (I had it planned for a bit later in my roadmap). Then, I will address your reports and handle them very seriously. I try my best to delete sensitive content, but with the current workload and ongoing relocation, it takes a lot of time. I am being extra cautious now. The regulations are quite general, and I would like to refine them together with you and do everything properly. For now, please make use of the option to block the magazine/author.”

❤

  • @jazzbox
    13•1 year ago

    Allowing fascist/bigoted echo chambers to exist at all just facilitates more hate being brought into the world. Obviously one can only do so much, but I think there is some sort of obligation there for both an individual and a community to stop the spread of hate.

    • @HerrLewakaas
      13•1 year ago

      You can’t censor people’s opinions on the internet. If you lock them out everywhere they set up their own site, and they’ve got every right to do so. Banning certain unwanted opinions has never and will never work, that’s not how you deal with extremism effectively.

      • @jazzbox
        8•1 year ago

        Sure, but the goal here is not necessarily to eliminate hate-speech entirely, since that is obviously impossible; the goal is to make it hard to find. You do that by not allowing hateful communities on your website. I don’t want an impressionable teenager, for example, to get sucked into a fascist echo chamber on the same sites they use to talk about video games. That was (still is?) a huuuge problem in the YouTube gaming scene.

        Ideally there would be systems in place to stop the fascists from creating their own echo chamber instance, but I understand why people would be scared of that power being abused. So fine, let them then. But they should never see the light of day.

        Genuinely - if you do not think this is effective, how do you think we can deal with extremism effectively?

        • @panda_paddle
          2•1 year ago

          I disagree. You can’t eliminate hate by shoving it in a corner. You have to try to fight speech with speech. Your proposal only splits the group into 2 opposing echo chambers. The one that you consider right and the one they consider right. Neither will ever have their opinions questioned and both will have their opinions reinforced by the peers around them. I had friends absolutely shocked by a 2021 gallop poll showing only 34% of Americans supported trans youth playing sports for their preferred gender. They spent so much time listening to people on reddit agree with them, that they couldn’t fathom they were in the minority. Creating an insulated safe space only fosters ignorance.

          • @aceshigh
            5•1 year ago

            You have to try to fight speech with speech.

            not person you were talking to. people are emotional, not logical. you can’t use logic to talk to someone who has illogical beliefs.

      • @jazzbox
        -3•1 year ago

        Definitely, and that is one of my main fears/critiques of this whole fediverse thing. Ideally there will be a system in place to help mitigate that, if there isn’t already. Defederating is also effective.

        I guess my point is that any instance (or website in general) that was not started with the inherent goal of being a fascist echo chamber should be completely intolerant of fascist/bigoted ideas. Especially the big ones, like lemmy.world and Kbin. And they should do everything within their power to not let those ideas exist. The paradox of tolerance and all that.

        Some people are too far gone and will just run away into the shadows, sure. I’m more concerned about the “regular” people who are exposed to those ideas against their own will and get sucked into this cycle of hatred.

          • @jazzbox
            -2•1 year ago

            Yeah :/ It’s quite unfortunate. I love the idea of ActivityPub/the Fediverse and think it is a net positive, but the fact that Nazis can use it to easily platform their ideas just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

            I’m hoping that admins of all instances (or at least the biggest instances) will be vigilant against combating hate speech so that “Fediverse” or “Lemmy” won’t have the same connotations as 4chan for example. I guess time will tell

          • @jazzbox
            2•1 year ago

            Since you clearly don’t, and seemingly don’t want to, understand the fediverse or free speech, why not just go back to Reddit where you can be happier?

            Okay let’s deescalate a bit… One can enjoy something and still criticize it. I did not think expressing a worry about the spread of fascist ideology and hate-speech would invite backlash. Can you seriously not relate to that? There has got to be some kind of miscommunication going on here.

            Censorship has never and will never prevent ideas from existing, being discussed, and spreading. It doesn’t even slow them down. It just drives them into spaces where you can’t see.

            Yes, I want to drive Nazis and bigots into spaces where they are hard to find. They degenerate whatever space they’re allowed in. I’m not naive enough to think this will extinguish them, and I wasn’t trying to even imply that, but the alternative is to do what - just give them a platform to spew hatred? Do you have a solution? Or are you just going to spit out baseless accusations and tell people to leave if they’re not complacent with hate-speech in a space they enjoy?

            I’m down to have a discussion but show some kindness.

              • @jazzbox
                1•1 year ago

                Perhaps. To paraphrase, I hear your position as “I don’t like what they’re saying. Exile them.” Is that accurate?

                That is my solution, but I think the communication issue may lie in the intent. I want forum sites such as Lemmy or Kbin to encourage dialogue from a diverse user base, and I think that allowing fascist and bigoted rhetoric inhibits that goal. Those kinds of people have proven that they almost never discuss in good faith, and I think they will push away individuals who are looking for a space to have good faith discussions. You may have heard of the paradox of tolerance. If you haven’t, I’d encourage you to read about it. I’d like to hear what you think.

                Also, I know that you were paraphrasing, but I want to be completely clear that this is not because “I don’t like what they’re saying.” Obviously, I think it is healthy to encounter differing opinions. But I believe the rhetoric I’m talking about is more than mere “differing opinions” … it is hurtful, dangerous, and attempts to both justify and normalize discrimination. All while providing no value whatsoever.

                Extremism of all stripes is dangerous. If you don’t like what someone is saying, be a grown up and ignore them.

                You and I might be able to parse through the dogshit on the internet, but there are people who can’t. I think there is an obligation to keep alt-right propaganda out of the same space that an impressionable teenager would use to talk about Minecraft. Especially now, there have been far too many kids radicalized in that way. It’s far too easy to weaponize someone’s hatred and insecurities.

                "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” – Evelyn Beatrice Hall

                If you broaden the scope, I wholeheartedly agree. But websites are not countries, moderators are not governments, and content policies are not laws. To be banned from a website does not deprive one of their rights. I really don’t think you need to compromise your morals to have a space, or participate in a space, that has no toleratence bigotry and discrimination. Plus, there are already established limits to free speech that attempt to keep peace and order, like the “you can’t yell fire in a crowded theater” clause. I don’t see my desires here as much different than that.