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This forum is primarily dedicated to higher quality posts and discussions. Those are welcome from everyone but will be filtered by the moderators. In order to foster more discussion, we have decided to start a weekly stickied discussion thread for the subreddit. This discussion thread is a place for people to post things that are more casual regarding subjective idealism, and things that are more exploratory. Here is a place for individuals to propose ideas and ask questions and figure out subjective idealism.

  • @syncretikOPMEnglish
    1•1 year ago

    In contrast to the above, spell magick is like planting a seed and watching it grow. So there would be some manner of activity, be it with incantations or without, with some ritual or without and anything in between, and this would create a long-term idea which would begin operating in the subconscious mind. This idea can also be fed later by a “past spells honoring and remembrance” ritual. The change in this case emerges to conscious awareness from a region of the mind below consciousness. So, gradually, simply from knowing about the existence and power of the “seed state,” the changes come into the conscious awareness as the seed state matures.

    This view is a bit foreign to me, so I’m going to try to break it down.

    It seems to me that this implies that the dynamic between conscious and subconscious isn’t just one of focused-practice v. habit. This spell model of magic has some different assumptions about the mind. The imagination model would suggest that to transform a phenomena, you need to actively get involved in that perception and conception and transform those habits and habituate a new mode of perception and conception around that phenomena.

    The spell model suggests that you can just want something to change, have a specific ritual technique/technology that you perform (as complex or simple as you’d like), and then some background subconscious process/creature/force will transform your perception or conception for you (much like pushing a button by the door rings a bell in the house for you - it’s an externalized sort of power). I think this spell model is much more of a technological view of magic than a psychic view, so to speak.

    I want to know what those assumptions are. What is the entity or force that takes the message of your spell/ritual and knows its meaning and then gets to work transforming the world for you? Can this entity or force communicate symbolically back with you in your life in your view?

    Originally commented by u/AesirAnatman on 2017-08-07 08:07:16 (dl99ko4)

    • @syncretikOPMEnglish
      1•1 year ago

      some background subconscious process/creature/force will transform your perception or conception for you

      Like u/mindseal said, it’s you. I think the whole idea of SI is to eliminate any notions of separate entities, even notions that the subconscious is something separate. Like when you dream, it is you who has created the dream, but we don’t accredit it to some outside force just because we did not actively shape it.

      I like the way the patterning of experience explains it. Especially this

      The pattern will overlap with other patterns you are holding onto. This is why it does not immediately become your experience. It is immediately true but your other patterns fit it into a time framework.

      Originally commented by u/WrongStar on 2017-08-08 00:58:32 (dla9l74)

      • @syncretikOPMEnglish
        1•1 year ago

        Like u/mindseal said, it’s you. I think the whole idea of SI is to eliminate any notions of separate entities, even notions that the subconscious is something separate. Like when you dream, it is you who has created the dream, but we don’t accredit it to some outside force just because we did not actively shape it.

        At an ultimate level this is true, but there are still intermediary illusory entities operating in your world if you are othering at all. So when you drop a rock. You don’t consciously drag the rock to the ground. It just falls. Your subconscious is doing that automatically for you. Or when you have a conversation with a person. You aren’t consciously coming up with thoughts and words and a background life for this character. And yet they stand there talking to you about it. That’s because there’s some subconscious process/creature/force operating in the background of your mind generating that character.

        Originally commented by u/AesirAnatman on 2017-08-08 01:33:05 (dlabers)

        • @syncretikOPMEnglish
          1•1 year ago

          You aren’t consciously coming up with thoughts and words and a background life for this character

          Yes, which is why I brought up the dream analogy. You aren’t consciously creating the dream, but it was still you who created it.

          It’s up for grabs what you want to call that aspect of you, whether it be subconscious or whatever, but I think it’s important not to attribute it to an outside force. George Berkeley ended up doing that and calling it God (a good video on that)

          Originally commented by u/WrongStar on 2017-08-08 01:51:06 (dlacex4)

          • @syncretikOPMEnglish
            1•1 year ago

            It IS you in an ultimate sense. But there a difference between what you consciously control and what is operating subconsciously in your mind. You can make what is subconscious conscious, but while it is subconscious it is not conscious (granted that this is a continuum). So, you might say you are growing all the trees. But you’re not doing that consciously, and you probably can’t just snap your fingers and make them all start to ‘un-grow’ back into seeds. That power is operating mostly unconsciously and is othered.

            Originally commented by u/AesirAnatman on 2017-08-08 01:56:26 (dlacpqq)

    • @syncretikOPMEnglish
      1•1 year ago

      What is the entity or force that takes the message of your spell/ritual and knows its meaning and then gets to work transforming the world for you?

      It’s you. It’s your own expectation. It’s your own ability to recognize a certain possible result or a certain range of possible results as being in accordance with the intent of a spell.

      Can this entity or force communicate symbolically back with you in your life in your view?

      It’s called introspection. :)

      Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-08-07 09:00:03 (dl9by2x)