Palestinians support Hamas decision to go to war with Israel, survey suggests, with no political solution on horizon | CNN
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A survey of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank suggests they back Hamas in its decision to go to war with Israel, seeing no alternative to armed struggle.

CNN reporting on some interesting survey results from the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah. Seven hundred and fifty adults were interviewed face to face in the West Bank, and 481 were interviewed in Gaza, also in person. The Gaza data collection was done during the recent truce, when it was safer for researchers to move about.

  • @masquenox
    2•6 months ago

    You’re literally agreeing with me.

    No, we’re not, because…

    My whole point is that violence accomplishes the same thing as handwringing – nothing.

    Riiiiight… if we just sacrifice a million more to the mass-murderers they’ll grow tired off it and leave peacefully, is that it, Clyde? Is that your plan?

    Why don’t you lead by example and put yourself up for the chop?

    By the way, do you actually have a definition of liberal you can refer to here?

    The guiding principle of moderate, centrist and liberal politics is acquiescence to the status quo.

    It is, by default, the most cowardly, self-serving and privileged form of politics one could ascribe to.

    As MLK himself wrote:

    I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice;

    So no, Clyde - I will not be providing you with a description of the politics you should have no problem recognizing yourself.

    • @assassin_aragorn
      1•6 months ago

      Riiiiight… if we just sacrifice a million more to the mass-murderers they’ll grow tired off it and leave peacefully, is that it, Clyde? Is that your plan?

      The guiding principle of moderate, centrist and liberal politics is acquiescence to the status quo.

      Let me get this straight. Nonviolent solutions – once bombing the shit out of each other for the 50th time doesn’t work – is just liberal bullshit and trying to preserve the status quo, prioritizing order over justice…

      As MLK himself wrote

      … And you use a quote by one of the most famous nonviolent protest advocates in history to try and prove that?

      I think very clearly, MLK is not referring to using and promoting nonviolent methods as the problematic behavior of the white moderate. Considering, you know, how he promoted nonviolent methods.

      Allow me to quote MLK in kind:

      Violence as a way of achieving racial justice is both impractical and immoral. I am not unmindful of the fact that violence often brings about momentary results. Nations have frequently won their independence in battle. But in spite of temporary victories, violence never brings permanent peace. It solves no social problem: it merely creates new and more complicated ones. Violence is impractical because it is a descending spiral ending in destruction for all. It is immoral because it seeks to humiliate the opponent rather than win his understanding: it seeks to annihilate rather than convert. Violence is immoral because it thrives on hatred rather than love. It destroys community and makes brotherhood impossible. It leaves society in monologue rather than dialogue. Violence ends up defeating itself.

      I believe this is the “liberal handwringing” you were referring to earlier?

      So kindly explain this contradiction – is MLK a “white moderate liberal who is devoted to order over justice”? Did MLK follow the “most cowardly, self-serving, and privileged form of politics” and acquiesce to the status quo?

      Or, is it possible that you’re letting your anger get the best of you? It’s completely sensible to be enraged about this, but you’re letting your anger turn you into a warhawk.

      • @masquenox
        1•6 months ago

        Let me get this straight.

        So that’s a definitive “no” on sacrificing yourself, huh?

        It’s easy to expect others to sacrifice themselves “peacefully” if you know the blood won’t be soiling your porch isn’t it, liberal?

        Do tell… why do you think MLK (who was no less hated by the powers that be than Malcolm X) was packaged and sold to you after his death as some paragon of “nonviolence?” Does it perhaps have something to do with the fact that liberals love the idea of “nonviolence” because it poses no threat to the status quo?

        Here.

        Do tell… how could the colonialist slaughter perpetrated by the Nazis and their European helpers in the Soviet Union have ended “nonviolently?”

        How could the indiscriminate mass-murder that the US rained down on SE Asia have ended “nonviolently?”

        We both know the answer to that - the difference between us is that you appease the mass-murderers with your “nonviolence” because you are perfectly fine with sacrificing people to the colonialist death machine as long as it doesn’t affect you.

        I, on the other hand, don’t.

        • @assassin_aragorn
          2•6 months ago

          The article on MLK is genuinely interesting and informative, but the author fails to actually prove their point. MLK saw riots as an inevitability, and he explained why they happen, but he never went beyond that. MLK says that if you sum up all the wrongs committed, the white colonizer is still the more guilty. That’s the last direct quote however. The next claim by the author is completely unsubstantiated:

          “If it is violent to take that which does not belong to you for the thrill of, even briefly, imagining yourself on even ground with your oppressor, then King was concluding there was to be no hope for nonviolence. Perhaps not then, perhaps not ever. Martin Luther King, at the end of his life, was coming to understand the restrictions of nonviolence as a weapon against a violent oppressor who shows no moral compass.”

          In none of MLK’s words does he say there is no hope for nonviolence. The author is making a massive extrapolation. I’m happy be proven wrong if you have any direct quotes from MLK where he recants nonviolence and promotes violence.

          I must say though, it is quite interesting for someone so opposed to colonialism to harshly lecture a descendant of the colonized. My grandparents were born as British colonists. My heritage is of a proud culture who has their valuables stolen by the British – and that are currently still displayed in British museums.

          So no, I’m not going to sacrifice myself. Colonizers have taken more than enough from my family line. I will not deign to pretend to know your background, so this may or may not apply to you – but I find it rich when white “leftists” who are so deadset against imperialism have no qualms about lecturing and whitesplaining to nonwhite people. A bit ironic, don’t you think, for a supposedly anti imperialist to insist they know better than a nonwhite descendent of the colonized?

          I don’t know which side of this equation you’re on, but it’s apparent that the white leftist in a situation like this is more similar to their colonizing ancestors than they’d like to admit. Either you’re like me and you’re already well aware of this from so called liberals… or you have some soul searching to do.