Israeli soldiers raiding a hospital in northern Gaza desecrated the bodies of deceased patients with bulldozers, let a military dog maul a man in a wheelchair, and shot multiple doctors even after vetting them, according to allegations by staffers and patients at Kamal Adwan hospital, where Israeli forces spent eight days last week.
Yes. People don’t like the extremist and murderous policies of that state under Netanyahu. While antisemitism is still a problem worldwide, objecting to Israel’s treatment of Palestinians is not in itself antisemitism. The accusation of antisemitism has been used politically to deflect criticism of these policies.
And of course such criticism doesn’t mean people like Hamas either. That’s another accusation that has been trotted out to deflect criticism.
I don’t like Netanyahu’s extremist policies either.
Referring to “Zionists” as ‘Nazis’ is nevertheless antisemitic. Zionism is simply the belief in the right of self-determination of the Jewish people to a state of Israel in their historic homeland. It was created through international law by partition, just as many others were, but is unique in having its right to exist questioned.
If you don’t like the people in charge, that’s fine. That’s not anti-Zionist. Claiming that Israel has no right to exist, that it should be destroyed and the Jews either dispersed or killed (by one means or another; this is also the inevitable outcome of a one-state ‘solution’), is antisemitic.
Arguing that there’s only one definition of Zionism or that yours is the correct one is disingenuous at best and antisemitic at worst. I personally prefer to just believe you’re uninformed given your inability to cite a source that supports your claims.
Additionally, Israel is by no means unique in having its right to exist questioned. I’m not sure where that particular bullshit talking point came from but it’s sort of racist? Ukraine, for example, is waging a war for its right to exist in the face of Putin trying to restore the USSR. Georgia too. Maduro recently said Venezuela should just conquer Guyana. Taiwan has been under threat from mainland China for its entire existence, itself having a pretty similar story to Israel where an outside group moved in (Chiang Kai-Shek and the Kuomintang), who proceeded to control the indigenous population (who had already been through many rounds of occupation).
Finally, you’re making a huge leap when you claim that people calling out the self-proclaimed Zionists controlling the government of Israel for committing war crimes equates to calling for the death of all Israelis and all Jewish peoples. Anyone can criticize the Israeli government, doing so is neither antisemitic nor is it wishing death on anyone.
Do you think your definition of Zionism matches what others believe about Zionism? Do you think your definition is the one applied today? Seems like most Zionists policies are racist towards Palestinians.
I mean even the definition they gave is problematic. Palestine is a place full of ethnic and religious diversity. Privileging one part of the population necessitates the disenfranchisement of others. That’s what all expressions of Zionism entail.
I’d like to offer some corrections and clarifications.
First, you are absolutely 100% right that Zionism is much bigger than just “Let’s go genocide”. The usage of Zionism today seems very muddied and strange, especially by non-Jews.
Zionism is actually even more expansive than you describe here though: it’s simply the belief in the right of the Jewish people to a state. A lot of 19th century Zionists actually wanted to buy land in Africa to start a Jewish state to sidestep the thorny mess that is politics in the holy land. They lost out to Herzl in the first Zionist Congress though.
Secondarily, I completely agree that anti-zionism based on Jewish dispersal is exactly identical to Palestinian genocide, just reversed. There are one-state proposals that could work if the crazy religious nutjobs weren’t in power in Israel and Gaza, working hand in glove to maintain power by mutual terror.
I think when people that aren’t fully aware of the ideologies are hating on Zionism, what they’re actually against is Kahanism, they just don’t know the terminology.
That’s a good clarification. I wonder how often, when people endorse statements like that, they simply don’t understand that Zionism embraces a lot more than Israel’s far right wing or think through the implications. Sometimes, for sure, it’s a deliberate style of messaging from antisemites.
Israel, the Jewish state created after the Holocaust, and in which half of all Jews live, you mean?
Yes. People don’t like the extremist and murderous policies of that state under Netanyahu. While antisemitism is still a problem worldwide, objecting to Israel’s treatment of Palestinians is not in itself antisemitism. The accusation of antisemitism has been used politically to deflect criticism of these policies.
And of course such criticism doesn’t mean people like Hamas either. That’s another accusation that has been trotted out to deflect criticism.
I don’t like Netanyahu’s extremist policies either.
Referring to “Zionists” as ‘Nazis’ is nevertheless antisemitic. Zionism is simply the belief in the right of self-determination of the Jewish people to a state of Israel in their historic homeland. It was created through international law by partition, just as many others were, but is unique in having its right to exist questioned.
If you don’t like the people in charge, that’s fine. That’s not anti-Zionist. Claiming that Israel has no right to exist, that it should be destroyed and the Jews either dispersed or killed (by one means or another; this is also the inevitable outcome of a one-state ‘solution’), is antisemitic.
Arguing that there’s only one definition of Zionism or that yours is the correct one is disingenuous at best and antisemitic at worst. I personally prefer to just believe you’re uninformed given your inability to cite a source that supports your claims.
Additionally, Israel is by no means unique in having its right to exist questioned. I’m not sure where that particular bullshit talking point came from but it’s sort of racist? Ukraine, for example, is waging a war for its right to exist in the face of Putin trying to restore the USSR. Georgia too. Maduro recently said Venezuela should just conquer Guyana. Taiwan has been under threat from mainland China for its entire existence, itself having a pretty similar story to Israel where an outside group moved in (Chiang Kai-Shek and the Kuomintang), who proceeded to control the indigenous population (who had already been through many rounds of occupation).
Finally, you’re making a huge leap when you claim that people calling out the self-proclaimed Zionists controlling the government of Israel for committing war crimes equates to calling for the death of all Israelis and all Jewish peoples. Anyone can criticize the Israeli government, doing so is neither antisemitic nor is it wishing death on anyone.
Do you think your definition of Zionism matches what others believe about Zionism? Do you think your definition is the one applied today? Seems like most Zionists policies are racist towards Palestinians.
I mean even the definition they gave is problematic. Palestine is a place full of ethnic and religious diversity. Privileging one part of the population necessitates the disenfranchisement of others. That’s what all expressions of Zionism entail.
I’d like to offer some corrections and clarifications.
First, you are absolutely 100% right that Zionism is much bigger than just “Let’s go genocide”. The usage of Zionism today seems very muddied and strange, especially by non-Jews.
Zionism is actually even more expansive than you describe here though: it’s simply the belief in the right of the Jewish people to a state. A lot of 19th century Zionists actually wanted to buy land in Africa to start a Jewish state to sidestep the thorny mess that is politics in the holy land. They lost out to Herzl in the first Zionist Congress though.
Secondarily, I completely agree that anti-zionism based on Jewish dispersal is exactly identical to Palestinian genocide, just reversed. There are one-state proposals that could work if the crazy religious nutjobs weren’t in power in Israel and Gaza, working hand in glove to maintain power by mutual terror.
I think when people that aren’t fully aware of the ideologies are hating on Zionism, what they’re actually against is Kahanism, they just don’t know the terminology.
That’s a good clarification. I wonder how often, when people endorse statements like that, they simply don’t understand that Zionism embraces a lot more than Israel’s far right wing or think through the implications. Sometimes, for sure, it’s a deliberate style of messaging from antisemites.
For 75 years of history, Zionism had been killing Palestinians, it doesn’t matter who is in government, seemingly.
No israel the Nazi state in which the Zionist Nazis live.
The Jews live elsewhere.
Again, this is antisemitic.
Again, how?
You need a good dictionary my friend.
Exactly, the state who does not represent all Jews. That one.