Afghan schoolgirls are weeping as they finish sixth grade, knowing their education is over. Under Taliban rule, they are unlikely to ever step foot in a classroom again.
Why should you give a shit what they do? I’ll hunt down anyone who commits acts of terror against the US, but I don’t give a fuck if these people want to repress their own people. It’s their choice how to live, not mine. One man’s repression is another’s freedom since religion makes people do dumbass things. They’re not worth the cost of a switchblade nor any of the other expensive shit we lobbed at that country for 2 decades. Once we had the guy that coordinated 9/11 we should have pulled out. They don’t want western style “civilization” they’re perfect happy (definitely not all of them) with their value and political system.
Interesting thing about Afghanistan is that according to the UN, each government of a country is well within their rights to how they run their country within their own borders.
Yes, genocide and loss of freedom are frowned upon and sanctions are called - but as it is the religion and view of the country they are left to it. We can’t push western values on another country.
The idea that half of the people in a country are still people even if they had the audacity to be born without a penis shouldn’t be a “western value”. Read the article again and find a book or two about what goes on over there before suggesting that we follow the UN version of Starfleet’s Prime Directive.
Interesting thing about Afghanistan is that according to the UN, each government of a country is well within their rights to how they run their country within their own borders.
The argument for other country to everstretch itself can be that other country’s problems leak over their borders. What is the reasonable limit there? Instead of ‘we want oil’, there can be another case of a biological weapon, or that Afganistan is the source of a world illegal drugs trade etc, or whatever. Even plain cultural or religious antagonism can be faned into a fire, sold to a public as good and just. Now, after what happened to Afghanistan after 20 years is discouraging, but in twenty years? With corrupt guys like Trump, a military lobby and other conflicts in acive phase?
You’re literally calling for raining bombs on a country of people who don’t want that… you’re not asking for human rights. You’re pushing your ideas of right on them. Have you learned nothing from what the middle eastern people have been telling western civilization over the last several years? They don’t want our ideas. They have religious texts that they believe sets up how to live and act for them. Just leave them the fuck alone and focus on our own countries.
I’m calling for raining bombs on a select group of people who can’t seem to navigate their way out of the dark ages. Advocating for the “sit back and watch” position puts a higher value on the lives of tyrants than the rights of the people they oppress. If we kill the ones in charge who turn out to be assholes, they’ll either run out of assholes or get the message. Both outcomes are fine.
So if Russia wants to bomb your leaders because your country allows slaves in prison like a middle age shithole, you wouldn’t mind do you? You should actually welcome it.
And then when your leaders keep ruling as tyrants by refusing to give universal healthcare to your people, the EU should execute your leaders immediately, you agree?
And when your police keep murdering black people, your leaders should once again get blasted, you’ll get the message eventually, right?
You wouldn’t disagree with these rightful bombings, would you? It’s all for putting you out of your oppression and the dark ages.
I am fine with that. If all the politicians in the US were put on show trials and hung tomorrow I would go to work same as normal. You can do that for the Wall Street fuckers as well, plus the health insurance people, the lobbyists, anyone who sits on a think tank.
Pretty much anyone who claims they get to rule over me and not provide people with a service. Go do whatever you want.
Pretty much anyone who claims they get to rule over me and not provide people with a service.
The problem is that these two things aren’t, you know, unrelated. You say, the health insurance people, right, and I would generally agree they can go fuck themselves, but I think if we kill a bunch of them, the power vacuum will probably just fill itself with the exact same shit, while people slowly get radicalized and possibly become nationalistic because everyone’s getting killed by a foreign government, you know, especially as the government that’s getting bombed to shit starts cutting propaganda about it. You need to actively be providing an alternative that people will flock to, when you go and kill these people, otherwise, you’ll just be eliminating infrastructure in the form of people, and you’ll be turning everything into a dark age political radicalization hellzone.
Whatabout you make a single argument supporting your position? Because if all you can think is « kill bad guys then everyone happy », you might want to educate yourself with something other than Disney movies.
Your reading comprehension is lacking, I never claimed such a thing. I talked about the majority of Afghanis and the vast majority of them to not live in Kabul.
I love when you lemmings end your shit with “maybe when you’re older” like as if you’re some all knowing creature because you’re old as shit (boomer).
Maybe when you’re older you’ll learn to leave people the fuck alone that want to be left alone. We’ve tried world building enough. The Soviets, the British and the US. How many dead Middle Eastern people will it take before your colonial ass realizes it’s not what they want.
They’re only worth saving if they want to be saved. Keep worrying about your $1 food, I’ve got bigger things to be worried about that don’t involve making kids terrified of clear blue skies.
I agree with your overall point, but the unempathetic way you’re expressing it is really off-putting to me. For example…
I’ve got bigger things to be worried about
People say things like this all the time about problems that don’t affect them and that they can’t control (some other examples are homelessness, addiction, etc.). It always strikes me as being super uncaring and cold. No one’s asking you to help them directly or to let it spoil your day or whatever – but it takes absolutely zero effort to just briefly recognize systemic problems like these. In fact, I think it’s important that we do so. Why? Because that shit could happen here as well. That 6th-grade girl could be me, or my nibling, or my neighbor, and there but for the grace of god go I. (It’s an expression, I’m not being religious here.)
Yeah, yeah I know “thoughts and prayers” and all that noise, but I think it’s more than that. There are oppressive religious entities here where I live in the US. Seeing what this leads to … nothing we can do to stop it, right. And FFS the US sending our military to try to fix anything is absolutely … “colonial” is a good term for it, as you said. Even non-military intervention, like when we send politicians to Latin American countries to lecture them on instability that we created. So wack.
But I can at least recognize the humanity here, and what it must feel like to get one of those girls. It doesn’t really constitute “worry” to just care about another person and to express that.
While I disagree with your view on “happy” and “choice how to live”, it is a very interesting discussion that a country never successfully developed democracy and equality without their own citizens fighting for it.
We can push our values all we want, but until people die for how they want to live it won’t stick. Unfortunately America is declining for the same reason.
I’m not saying I’m happy, or that I think they’re objectively happy. They just don’t want anything else or can’t conceptualize anything else. The people of Afghanistan have a way of living that they’re comfortable with since they don’t show much resistance to the status quo. We spent trillions on that country trying to make it “western” and a “democracy” like the US when the reality is that they don’t want that. They also don’t know anything different other than when we brought them “freedom” it meant the sky occasionally rained death and explosions. I don’t have an answer for them, and as history has shown for that region no one has an answer. I just know I don’t want to spend my tax dollars blowing up random people on the other side of the planet because I don’t give a fuck about them and I don’t want them to actively hate me in the future.
Dude wtf are you on about. This is literally a thread about 12-year girls crying because they’re not “comfortable with…the status quo”. They clearly do “know anything different”, because that’s what they’re upset about.
Ok, we can go back to bombing random civilians then. I guess if we guise it under “human rights” this time it makes all the bad stuff go away. Y’all realize you’re literally asking for people to go in and bomb a sovereign nation solely because you disagree with how they’re living?
I feel for those girls and the future they want. I hope they can make it to a country that supports them and fosters the same ideals they hold. Sometimes the country or culture we’re born into doesn’t align with us. However those girls aren’t a majority. I can find Americans saying things the majority of us don’t agree with, I can find Iranians saying things the majority of Americans agree with. These don’t make those things true of each others cultures. You’re wanting to change a culture because it doesn’t align with your ideals rather than realizing that sometimes that’s exactly what people want.
I’ll leave you with this: The monarchy in Britain has centuries of human rights abuses, and is something I think is completely antithetical to Democratic principles. Yet 62% of Briton’s support the monarchy. Should I be able to drone strike them just because I disagree or think it goes against human rights? Where does that line get drawn except in all y’all’s Weird brains of assuming you know what Afghani people want and should get.
Not when they’re content and approve of the way things are, and spare me the “but here’s a video of a person unhappy about it”. I guess I’ll shift back then so the people of Lemmy can be happy to my true American roots and say we should bomb them again randomly. I mean, it worked for 20 years apparently so why did we stop.
The middle ground is to be friends with them. They don’t want that either (can’t blame them on that one), so leaving them alone is our best course of action. Bombing their leaders because of “human rights abuses” is exactly what created Osama Bin Laden, ISIL, and every other terror group in the last 20+ years. I’m sick of fighting and being at war. My country, the US, can build some of the greatest infrastructure on the planet. I’d rather build that and spend money on humanitarian relief to help people after natural disasters.
Next go around at trying to colonize Afghanistan can be done by Australia if you want. I’d hope you all would have opened a history book by then, but probably not considering the thirst for blood in this thread.
they’re perfect happy (definitely not all of them) with their value and political system.
The way I see it, there are three groups in Afghanistan worth considering. The first is the group you referred to with that caveat: the people unhappy with their value and political system.
The second group is those who are “perfect happy” (sic) with systemic oppression. They’ve built an entire religion, an entire way of life predicated on oppressing themselves. Those people, being “perfectly happy” with oppression, will gladly welcome the opportunity to be oppressed themselves.
There’s a third group of people. A small group. So small you didn’t even see fit to mention them. Like the first group, this small group of people truly despises systemic oppression. They hate it. They know it is wrong, and they never want to be subjected to it. But, like the second group, they deliberately employ it. They actively and systemically oppress not just the “perfectly happy” second group, but also the first group.
I see no problem whatsoever oppressing people who are “perfectly happy” being oppressed. They will relish the opportunity at being oppressed into a fine pink mist.
I feel no ethical or moral compulsion to segregate the “perfectly happy” from the “hypocrites”. I think they should be similarly mistified.
Why should you give a shit what they do? I’ll hunt down anyone who commits acts of terror against the US, but I don’t give a fuck if these people want to repress their own people. It’s their choice how to live, not mine. One man’s repression is another’s freedom since religion makes people do dumbass things. They’re not worth the cost of a switchblade nor any of the other expensive shit we lobbed at that country for 2 decades. Once we had the guy that coordinated 9/11 we should have pulled out. They don’t want western style “civilization” they’re perfect happy (definitely not all of them) with their value and political system.
Guess I’m one of those weirdos who wants humans to have rights even if we don’t share a flag or similar genitals.
Interesting thing about Afghanistan is that according to the UN, each government of a country is well within their rights to how they run their country within their own borders.
Yes, genocide and loss of freedom are frowned upon and sanctions are called - but as it is the religion and view of the country they are left to it. We can’t push western values on another country.
Ah, yes, remember when the Taliban was democratically elected by the people of Afghanistan?
… oh. It wasn’t?
I remember when the Afghanistan army folded in a week.
Is that what an election is?
No but when they spent 20 years helping the Taliban it pretty well reflected what the majority wanted
Exactly - internal matter within own boarders.
No other government claims they are in Hargett.
Ah, it’s just an “internal matter”, like genocide.
The idea that half of the people in a country are still people even if they had the audacity to be born without a penis shouldn’t be a “western value”. Read the article again and find a book or two about what goes on over there before suggesting that we follow the UN version of Starfleet’s Prime Directive.
The argument for other country to everstretch itself can be that other country’s problems leak over their borders. What is the reasonable limit there? Instead of ‘we want oil’, there can be another case of a biological weapon, or that Afganistan is the source of a world illegal drugs trade etc, or whatever. Even plain cultural or religious antagonism can be faned into a fire, sold to a public as good and just. Now, after what happened to Afghanistan after 20 years is discouraging, but in twenty years? With corrupt guys like Trump, a military lobby and other conflicts in acive phase?
You’re literally calling for raining bombs on a country of people who don’t want that… you’re not asking for human rights. You’re pushing your ideas of right on them. Have you learned nothing from what the middle eastern people have been telling western civilization over the last several years? They don’t want our ideas. They have religious texts that they believe sets up how to live and act for them. Just leave them the fuck alone and focus on our own countries.
Is there really no middle ground between “I don’t give a fuck about them” and “Bomb the country” ?
In logical thinking there is, but not in US foreign policy.
No. Clearly only two options
I’m calling for raining bombs on a select group of people who can’t seem to navigate their way out of the dark ages. Advocating for the “sit back and watch” position puts a higher value on the lives of tyrants than the rights of the people they oppress. If we kill the ones in charge who turn out to be assholes, they’ll either run out of assholes or get the message. Both outcomes are fine.
So if Russia wants to bomb your leaders because your country allows slaves in prison like a middle age shithole, you wouldn’t mind do you? You should actually welcome it.
And then when your leaders keep ruling as tyrants by refusing to give universal healthcare to your people, the EU should execute your leaders immediately, you agree?
And when your police keep murdering black people, your leaders should once again get blasted, you’ll get the message eventually, right?
You wouldn’t disagree with these rightful bombings, would you? It’s all for putting you out of your oppression and the dark ages.
I am fine with that. If all the politicians in the US were put on show trials and hung tomorrow I would go to work same as normal. You can do that for the Wall Street fuckers as well, plus the health insurance people, the lobbyists, anyone who sits on a think tank.
Pretty much anyone who claims they get to rule over me and not provide people with a service. Go do whatever you want.
The problem is that these two things aren’t, you know, unrelated. You say, the health insurance people, right, and I would generally agree they can go fuck themselves, but I think if we kill a bunch of them, the power vacuum will probably just fill itself with the exact same shit, while people slowly get radicalized and possibly become nationalistic because everyone’s getting killed by a foreign government, you know, especially as the government that’s getting bombed to shit starts cutting propaganda about it. You need to actively be providing an alternative that people will flock to, when you go and kill these people, otherwise, you’ll just be eliminating infrastructure in the form of people, and you’ll be turning everything into a dark age political radicalization hellzone.
: shrugs
really omega level convincing stuff, there.
You have made an accurate and fitting comparison, Vladimirovich. Definitely the same things going on in both cases.
You’re a clown. The US has literally banned abortion and you want to take the high moral ground. Lmfao.
Whatabout some more please.
Whatabout you make a single argument supporting your position? Because if all you can think is « kill bad guys then everyone happy », you might want to educate yourself with something other than Disney movies.
This might come as a shock to you, but those are people just like you.
They’re still worth saving even if they aren’t from your country.
You’ll understand when you’re older, maybe.
They don’t want to be “saved”
Really? You speak for all of them?
Obviously not for all, but demonstrably for the majority
Oh? When was that vote taken?
It’s obvious when you listen to anyone outside of Kabul
It’s a well documented fact that only people who live outside of cities count as people.
I see you have heard of the E.C.
Just because you’re more exposed to them doesn’t mean that the people in Kabul are worth more.
What about the ones who you don’t speak for?
What about them?
Are they worth saving?
That depends on what you mean by saving
The linked article suggests otherwise.
The linked article, like the vast majority of articles about Afghanistan, exclusively covers Kabul.
So the people in Kabul are not Afghan?
Go troll somewhere else
How am I trolling when you’re the one claiming the people in Kabul don’t count as Afghan?
Your reading comprehension is lacking, I never claimed such a thing. I talked about the majority of Afghanis and the vast majority of them to not live in Kabul.
I love when you lemmings end your shit with “maybe when you’re older” like as if you’re some all knowing creature because you’re old as shit (boomer).
Maybe when you’re older you’ll learn to leave people the fuck alone that want to be left alone. We’ve tried world building enough. The Soviets, the British and the US. How many dead Middle Eastern people will it take before your colonial ass realizes it’s not what they want.
They’re only worth saving if they want to be saved. Keep worrying about your $1 food, I’ve got bigger things to be worried about that don’t involve making kids terrified of clear blue skies.
Gods, I’m probably going to regret this, but…
I agree with your overall point, but the unempathetic way you’re expressing it is really off-putting to me. For example…
People say things like this all the time about problems that don’t affect them and that they can’t control (some other examples are homelessness, addiction, etc.). It always strikes me as being super uncaring and cold. No one’s asking you to help them directly or to let it spoil your day or whatever – but it takes absolutely zero effort to just briefly recognize systemic problems like these. In fact, I think it’s important that we do so. Why? Because that shit could happen here as well. That 6th-grade girl could be me, or my nibling, or my neighbor, and there but for the grace of god go I. (It’s an expression, I’m not being religious here.)
Yeah, yeah I know “thoughts and prayers” and all that noise, but I think it’s more than that. There are oppressive religious entities here where I live in the US. Seeing what this leads to … nothing we can do to stop it, right. And FFS the US sending our military to try to fix anything is absolutely … “colonial” is a good term for it, as you said. Even non-military intervention, like when we send politicians to Latin American countries to lecture them on instability that we created. So wack.
But I can at least recognize the humanity here, and what it must feel like to get one of those girls. It doesn’t really constitute “worry” to just care about another person and to express that.
While I disagree with your view on “happy” and “choice how to live”, it is a very interesting discussion that a country never successfully developed democracy and equality without their own citizens fighting for it.
We can push our values all we want, but until people die for how they want to live it won’t stick. Unfortunately America is declining for the same reason.
So I guess we should just take in the citizens who don’t want to live in that environment.
There’s plenty of room over here in the USA!
I’m not saying I’m happy, or that I think they’re objectively happy. They just don’t want anything else or can’t conceptualize anything else. The people of Afghanistan have a way of living that they’re comfortable with since they don’t show much resistance to the status quo. We spent trillions on that country trying to make it “western” and a “democracy” like the US when the reality is that they don’t want that. They also don’t know anything different other than when we brought them “freedom” it meant the sky occasionally rained death and explosions. I don’t have an answer for them, and as history has shown for that region no one has an answer. I just know I don’t want to spend my tax dollars blowing up random people on the other side of the planet because I don’t give a fuck about them and I don’t want them to actively hate me in the future.
Dude wtf are you on about. This is literally a thread about 12-year girls crying because they’re not “comfortable with…the status quo”. They clearly do “know anything different”, because that’s what they’re upset about.
Ok, we can go back to bombing random civilians then. I guess if we guise it under “human rights” this time it makes all the bad stuff go away. Y’all realize you’re literally asking for people to go in and bomb a sovereign nation solely because you disagree with how they’re living?
I feel for those girls and the future they want. I hope they can make it to a country that supports them and fosters the same ideals they hold. Sometimes the country or culture we’re born into doesn’t align with us. However those girls aren’t a majority. I can find Americans saying things the majority of us don’t agree with, I can find Iranians saying things the majority of Americans agree with. These don’t make those things true of each others cultures. You’re wanting to change a culture because it doesn’t align with your ideals rather than realizing that sometimes that’s exactly what people want.
I’ll leave you with this: The monarchy in Britain has centuries of human rights abuses, and is something I think is completely antithetical to Democratic principles. Yet 62% of Briton’s support the monarchy. Should I be able to drone strike them just because I disagree or think it goes against human rights? Where does that line get drawn except in all y’all’s Weird brains of assuming you know what Afghani people want and should get.
That’s a lot of words which you could have summarized as “I don’t know how to compare things, 10 equals 10,000,000 because they’re both numbers”.
Oh, and P.S., “Afghani” is a currency. Not a people.
Oh dang, thanks for the catch!
To repeat a comment you got 3 hours ago:
Not when they’re content and approve of the way things are, and spare me the “but here’s a video of a person unhappy about it”. I guess I’ll shift back then so the people of Lemmy can be happy to my true American roots and say we should bomb them again randomly. I mean, it worked for 20 years apparently so why did we stop.
The middle ground is to be friends with them. They don’t want that either (can’t blame them on that one), so leaving them alone is our best course of action. Bombing their leaders because of “human rights abuses” is exactly what created Osama Bin Laden, ISIL, and every other terror group in the last 20+ years. I’m sick of fighting and being at war. My country, the US, can build some of the greatest infrastructure on the planet. I’d rather build that and spend money on humanitarian relief to help people after natural disasters.
Next go around at trying to colonize Afghanistan can be done by Australia if you want. I’d hope you all would have opened a history book by then, but probably not considering the thirst for blood in this thread.
I am sorry for those girls that their parent’s were god fearing and as a result they have to suffer
Do those crying girls sound comfortable with their way of living to you?
People in America are ready to die for almost anything and that’s unironically a bad thing
The way I see it, there are three groups in Afghanistan worth considering. The first is the group you referred to with that caveat: the people unhappy with their value and political system.
The second group is those who are “perfect happy” (sic) with systemic oppression. They’ve built an entire religion, an entire way of life predicated on oppressing themselves. Those people, being “perfectly happy” with oppression, will gladly welcome the opportunity to be oppressed themselves.
There’s a third group of people. A small group. So small you didn’t even see fit to mention them. Like the first group, this small group of people truly despises systemic oppression. They hate it. They know it is wrong, and they never want to be subjected to it. But, like the second group, they deliberately employ it. They actively and systemically oppress not just the “perfectly happy” second group, but also the first group.
I see no problem whatsoever oppressing people who are “perfectly happy” being oppressed. They will relish the opportunity at being oppressed into a fine pink mist.
I feel no ethical or moral compulsion to segregate the “perfectly happy” from the “hypocrites”. I think they should be similarly mistified.