Turns out social democrats killing communist leaders (Spartacists), being lenient on fascists (Kapp Putsch) then using said fascists to kill communists (Freikorps and Ruhr uprisings) wasn’t a great strategy either.
So across the board the whole “building and using fascism as a controllable tool” doesn’t work out so well.
“How could those evil social democrats kill Communist leaders? It’s not like the Spartacists or Ruhr uprising were doing anything like an armed uprising against the government! Mean ol’ social fascists!”
And the fascist Freikorps units were also doing an armed rebellion.
I don’t think you understand the post-WW1 Freikorps if you think that they were ideologically fascist or rebelling as a whole. The Freikorps were a vast and varied collection of unofficial paramilitaries that weren’t even associated with one another. While generally nationalist, they ranged ideologically from conservative monarchists to staunch SPD supporters. Most Freikorps units didn’t even persist past the chaos of 1919, for fuck’s sake.
The SPD rolled over for them then set them with military support against the KPD.
The idea that the SPD ‘rolled over’ for the Freikorps (which the SPD-controlled government was instrumental in disbanding after the establishment of the Reichswehr) is… just not backed up by evidence. Have you forgotten that a core reason for the Kapp Putsch was that the Weimar government was disbanding various Freikorps units?
Keep changing what you’re arguing, and maybe you’ll come across a goalpost you like. Like claiming that Freikorps that were SPD partisans were actually fascists, because we all know that’s the ‘social fascist’ bullshit you’re pushing here. “B-both sides!”
The Freikorps were what? Largely nationalists who were SPD supporters or conservative monarchists?
Why yes. That’s kind of conveniently accurate here. Thanks for noting that prominently.
The Kapp Putsch directly led to the ruhr uprising, at which point the Freikorps were absolutely used with the Reichswehr against the communists. So the causes of the Kapp Putsch are rather overshadowed by the results and aftermath.
After 1919 the Freikorps were largely dissolved, but more importantly the ones that remained rebranded into organizations like the S.A. The architects of the Holocaust were this kind of Freikorps: like Himmler, Bormann, and Heydrich.
So really: Is it really offensive to note that empowering fascism for whatever reason is a bad idea that just empowers fascism?
The whole historical significance of the SPD government is that when faced with rebellion from fascists and communists the SPD chose to ally with the roving bands of fascist paramilitaries (Freikorps) against the communists.
But the SPD, KPD, and NSDAP were definitely not the only active political entities at the time. Lookin’ at you DDP and DVP. The liberals and centrists really enjoy the cover of the SPD-KPD when it comes to the era when the Nazis took power.
Turns out social democrats killing communist leaders (Spartacists), being lenient on fascists (Kapp Putsch) then using said fascists to kill communists (Freikorps and Ruhr uprisings) wasn’t a great strategy either.
So across the board the whole “building and using fascism as a controllable tool” doesn’t work out so well.
“How could those evil social democrats kill Communist leaders? It’s not like the Spartacists or Ruhr uprising were doing anything like an armed uprising against the government! Mean ol’ social fascists!”
Fucking pathetic.
They absolutely were rebelling. There were soviets and peoples republics being set up in Germany in the aftermath from WW1 and the treaty.
And the fascist Freikorps units were also doing an armed rebellion. The SPD rolled over for them then set them with military support against the KPD.
The story for the SPD is erroneously thinking they could use and control fascists to suppress communism and enable their political will.
The story for the KPD is erroneously thinking they could use and control fascists to suppress the SPD and enable their political will.
Looking at one and not the other in this historical scenario as to how the Nazis came to power is exactly how the fascists come to power.
I don’t think you understand the post-WW1 Freikorps if you think that they were ideologically fascist or rebelling as a whole. The Freikorps were a vast and varied collection of unofficial paramilitaries that weren’t even associated with one another. While generally nationalist, they ranged ideologically from conservative monarchists to staunch SPD supporters. Most Freikorps units didn’t even persist past the chaos of 1919, for fuck’s sake.
The idea that the SPD ‘rolled over’ for the Freikorps (which the SPD-controlled government was instrumental in disbanding after the establishment of the Reichswehr) is… just not backed up by evidence. Have you forgotten that a core reason for the Kapp Putsch was that the Weimar government was disbanding various Freikorps units?
Keep changing what you’re arguing, and maybe you’ll come across a goalpost you like. Like claiming that Freikorps that were SPD partisans were actually fascists, because we all know that’s the ‘social fascist’ bullshit you’re pushing here. “B-both sides!”
The Freikorps were what? Largely nationalists who were SPD supporters or conservative monarchists?
Why yes. That’s kind of conveniently accurate here. Thanks for noting that prominently.
The Kapp Putsch directly led to the ruhr uprising, at which point the Freikorps were absolutely used with the Reichswehr against the communists. So the causes of the Kapp Putsch are rather overshadowed by the results and aftermath.
After 1919 the Freikorps were largely dissolved, but more importantly the ones that remained rebranded into organizations like the S.A. The architects of the Holocaust were this kind of Freikorps: like Himmler, Bormann, and Heydrich.
So really: Is it really offensive to note that empowering fascism for whatever reason is a bad idea that just empowers fascism?
Ah yes because armed uprisings against governments should be stopped by killing people…
… yes…?
Like, that’s the generally accepted behavior when someone is trying to kill you? You are allowed to shoot back?
Jesus Christ, what, is your opinion that the SocDems should have just laid down and died?
The fuck.
The whole historical significance of the SPD government is that when faced with rebellion from fascists and communists the SPD chose to ally with the roving bands of fascist paramilitaries (Freikorps) against the communists.
But the SPD, KPD, and NSDAP were definitely not the only active political entities at the time. Lookin’ at you DDP and DVP. The liberals and centrists really enjoy the cover of the SPD-KPD when it comes to the era when the Nazis took power.