It’s fine to try to error on the side of caution. And assume that people aren’t horrible human beings. Just ignorant bumpkins that could be fixed with information and education.
But when the majority of them in the face of conflicting facts and evidence reject the truth and double down on the deadly rhetoric. It’s not a lack of education. They’re just bad people. Looking for someone outside themselves to blame for the problems they’ve caused for themselves.
This is who all Republicans are. As well as a few Democrats. It hurts to acknowledge this. Because many of them are family, sometimes even parents or siblings. But that doesn’t make it any less true. It just makes it harder for us to acknowledge.
Nope. Propaganda doesn’t negate any of the other points. Further that propaganda is involved is all the more reason not to excuse or enable the ones using it against the few genuinely ignorant.
And claiming people can be two things does not refute what I’ve said. For example you can be an ally and also an apologist for those we struggle against.
How so? Many of them had the same educations as us. Experienced most of the same things as us. Many of them failed to learn from experiences they personally lived through. That we only learned about ex post facto.
Education has no absolute impact on empathy and compassion. And most of them know better. These are the same people who if you insinuate that they are racist, bigoted, or white supremacist. Simply because they don’t object to their party being full of racists, bigots, and white supremacist. Even voting for racists, bigots, and white supremacists. Even as they themselves justify targeting all Muslims, or all black people disproportionately. Simply because they are Muslim or black. Even if those same Muslim or black people actively object to the behavior of the people, these targeted laws are ostensibly supposed to target. Criminals and terrorists. They’re hypocrites and they know it. They just want us to excuse and enable them. Pretending they’re ignoring.
These are the people who excuse January 6th. Claiming, without evidence might I add, that democrats did the same. Or somehow rigged the system, so that their only recourse was. They had to do what they always wanted to do.
How so? Many of them had the same educations as us. Experienced most of the same things as us.
A great many of them did not. I know damn well that I could’ve gone down a much darker path save that I had an extensive family support system to steer me away and help develop me into a person who doesn’t give in to or hang onto the first impression that comes to mind.
Education has no absolute impact on empathy and compassion.
You should know better than that.
And most of them know better. These are the same people who if you insinuate that they are racist, bigoted, or white supremacist. Simply because they don’t object to their party being full of racists, bigots, and white supremacist. Even voting for racists, bigots, and white supremacists. Even as they themselves justify targeting all Muslims, or all black people disproportionately. Simply because they are Muslim or black. Even if those same Muslim or black people actively object to the behavior of the people, these targeted laws are ostensibly supposed to target. Criminals and terrorists. They’re hypocrites and they know it. They just want us to excuse and enable them. Pretending they’re ignoring.
You see, I don’t disagree that there are a great many shitheads like that. But you’re missing a very large section of the GOP base there - people who are simply vulnerable. People who voted for Obama in 2008 and Trump in 2016 (assuming they bothered to vote at all). They aren’t ideologues. They don’t even have a coherent worldview. And how could they, without the tools or interest to discern convincing fakes (or extremely misleading wording) offered to them from ‘reliable’ sources from reality? They’re a morass of conflicting points of view that they never take time to examine, many because they are under enormous stress in trying to provide for themselves and the people they care about in a decaying system that cares very little about them (or any of us), and which offers solutions that give temporary reprieve and distraction. Alcohol, consumerism, news-as-showbiz…
It makes them unambiguously bad citizens, but that’s different from bad people. They’re victims of a society that has become increasingly tailored towards exploiting them.
I know damn well that I could’ve gone down a much darker path save that I had an extensive family support system
What’s that got to do with you being ignorant though. Not that I’m implying you’re ignorant. But that’s kind of what we’re discussing. You’re proving my point. It wasn’t “education” that pulled you out. It was want of approval and respect from those you love and respect that did it. And thank goodness you were surrounded by good intelligent people. But it can and does go the other way too. People will reject facts and evidence to stay in the good graces of those they seek approval from as well. Being made aware of facts doesn’t change them. Only a desire to take it to heart can change a person.
You see, I don’t disagree that there are a great many shitheads like that. But you’re missing a very large section of the GOP base there - people who are simply vulnerable
Yes, but if you let peer pressure goad you into say, shoplifting or even trying to overthrow an election. It’s still a bad thing, even if you’re vulnerable. And if you’re unrepentant, as the party is. You aren’t a good person. The majority of the party is literally chomping at the bit to elect him again and a lion share of the rest is not going to call it a deal breaker. You wouldn’t say Nazis were good people would you? Lots of them were vulnerable too. Lots of them were just following orders. Refresh my memory. Did we let all them go with a slap on the wrist? Saying next time don’t ruin hundreds of people’s lives? Or did we imprison and punish them? Don’t we generally call them bad people? Keep in mind good and bad aren’t binary, just rather exclusionary.
I mean when it comes down to it wasn’t Hitler himself vulnerable in some ways. What if someone he had respected or cared about had spoken to him in the way your family did to you? Set him straight, got him help. What if people didn’t enable or excuse his behavior. What if he wasn’t given the chancellorship of Germany because, what harm could he possibly do? Hitler and plenty of the Nazis were smart enough to know they were all bullshit and bluster. And the vulnerable people were let down not because of ignorance etc. But because society didn’t act in responsible ways. Enabling him till the problem came back to bite them in the ass.
We as a society are doing it all over again. Instead of actually trying to help people and stop the rhetoric and hate. We’re allowing the vulnerable to be corrupted and manipulated into being bad people. And honestly it’s probably too late to stop it. But it’s never too late to try. And we start by acknowledging what they are. Help the ones that seek help. And stop enabling the unrepentant to corrupt.
In a world where we all hold in our hands the access to the world’s knowledge, the remains no excuse.
They are shitting on the world. Maybe they weren’t taught, maybe the behavior was encourage but that doesn’t mean they cannot learn to use the toilet. That doesn’t mean they aren’t responsible for learning. Anything less encourages them to spread their inability to toilet their ignorance.
Exactly. You can put all the information in the world in front of them. But if learning or acknowledging it loses them the respect of those they respect or love, the never will do either. Conversely as family, friends and partners. If we accept and enable them despite the bad behavior. We enable their ignorance and delusion.
It’s not gullibility. That makes it sound like they are victims.
It’s the poorly educated voters and the willful ignorant. They choose this repeatedly, unwaveringly. They are as culpable as anyone else in the chain.
People can be two things.
It’s fine to try to error on the side of caution. And assume that people aren’t horrible human beings. Just ignorant bumpkins that could be fixed with information and education.
But when the majority of them in the face of conflicting facts and evidence reject the truth and double down on the deadly rhetoric. It’s not a lack of education. They’re just bad people. Looking for someone outside themselves to blame for the problems they’ve caused for themselves.
This is who all Republicans are. As well as a few Democrats. It hurts to acknowledge this. Because many of them are family, sometimes even parents or siblings. But that doesn’t make it any less true. It just makes it harder for us to acknowledge.
I think you underestimate the power of propaganda.
Nope. Propaganda doesn’t negate any of the other points. Further that propaganda is involved is all the more reason not to excuse or enable the ones using it against the few genuinely ignorant.
Sure. But they are not gullible.
And claiming people can be two things does not refute what I’ve said. For example you can be an ally and also an apologist for those we struggle against.
Man, they are gullible. Many of them, at least. It’s the same reason why literal billions of dollars are grifted out of them by email and phone scams.
The marks are the same people in financial scams as in political scams.
There is no political divide on who is more susceptible to financial scams.
However, thinking you’re immune or simply too smart to being scammed is a risk factor.,
Random link with charts
Where does that address politics? All that goes over is age, unless I’m missing some continuation or elaboration in a link somewhere.
I know a lot of poorly educated voters. Some are shitheads who have chosen to be so. But many never had a chance, realistically speaking.
How so? Many of them had the same educations as us. Experienced most of the same things as us. Many of them failed to learn from experiences they personally lived through. That we only learned about ex post facto.
Education has no absolute impact on empathy and compassion. And most of them know better. These are the same people who if you insinuate that they are racist, bigoted, or white supremacist. Simply because they don’t object to their party being full of racists, bigots, and white supremacist. Even voting for racists, bigots, and white supremacists. Even as they themselves justify targeting all Muslims, or all black people disproportionately. Simply because they are Muslim or black. Even if those same Muslim or black people actively object to the behavior of the people, these targeted laws are ostensibly supposed to target. Criminals and terrorists. They’re hypocrites and they know it. They just want us to excuse and enable them. Pretending they’re ignoring.
These are the people who excuse January 6th. Claiming, without evidence might I add, that democrats did the same. Or somehow rigged the system, so that their only recourse was. They had to do what they always wanted to do.
A great many of them did not. I know damn well that I could’ve gone down a much darker path save that I had an extensive family support system to steer me away and help develop me into a person who doesn’t give in to or hang onto the first impression that comes to mind.
You should know better than that.
You see, I don’t disagree that there are a great many shitheads like that. But you’re missing a very large section of the GOP base there - people who are simply vulnerable. People who voted for Obama in 2008 and Trump in 2016 (assuming they bothered to vote at all). They aren’t ideologues. They don’t even have a coherent worldview. And how could they, without the tools or interest to discern convincing fakes (or extremely misleading wording) offered to them from ‘reliable’ sources from reality? They’re a morass of conflicting points of view that they never take time to examine, many because they are under enormous stress in trying to provide for themselves and the people they care about in a decaying system that cares very little about them (or any of us), and which offers solutions that give temporary reprieve and distraction. Alcohol, consumerism, news-as-showbiz…
It makes them unambiguously bad citizens, but that’s different from bad people. They’re victims of a society that has become increasingly tailored towards exploiting them.
What’s that got to do with you being ignorant though. Not that I’m implying you’re ignorant. But that’s kind of what we’re discussing. You’re proving my point. It wasn’t “education” that pulled you out. It was want of approval and respect from those you love and respect that did it. And thank goodness you were surrounded by good intelligent people. But it can and does go the other way too. People will reject facts and evidence to stay in the good graces of those they seek approval from as well. Being made aware of facts doesn’t change them. Only a desire to take it to heart can change a person.
Yes, but if you let peer pressure goad you into say, shoplifting or even trying to overthrow an election. It’s still a bad thing, even if you’re vulnerable. And if you’re unrepentant, as the party is. You aren’t a good person. The majority of the party is literally chomping at the bit to elect him again and a lion share of the rest is not going to call it a deal breaker. You wouldn’t say Nazis were good people would you? Lots of them were vulnerable too. Lots of them were just following orders. Refresh my memory. Did we let all them go with a slap on the wrist? Saying next time don’t ruin hundreds of people’s lives? Or did we imprison and punish them? Don’t we generally call them bad people? Keep in mind good and bad aren’t binary, just rather exclusionary.
I mean when it comes down to it wasn’t Hitler himself vulnerable in some ways. What if someone he had respected or cared about had spoken to him in the way your family did to you? Set him straight, got him help. What if people didn’t enable or excuse his behavior. What if he wasn’t given the chancellorship of Germany because, what harm could he possibly do? Hitler and plenty of the Nazis were smart enough to know they were all bullshit and bluster. And the vulnerable people were let down not because of ignorance etc. But because society didn’t act in responsible ways. Enabling him till the problem came back to bite them in the ass.
We as a society are doing it all over again. Instead of actually trying to help people and stop the rhetoric and hate. We’re allowing the vulnerable to be corrupted and manipulated into being bad people. And honestly it’s probably too late to stop it. But it’s never too late to try. And we start by acknowledging what they are. Help the ones that seek help. And stop enabling the unrepentant to corrupt.
In a world where we all hold in our hands the access to the world’s knowledge, the remains no excuse.
They are shitting on the world. Maybe they weren’t taught, maybe the behavior was encourage but that doesn’t mean they cannot learn to use the toilet. That doesn’t mean they aren’t responsible for learning. Anything less encourages them to spread their inability to toilet their ignorance.
Exactly. You can put all the information in the world in front of them. But if learning or acknowledging it loses them the respect of those they respect or love, the never will do either. Conversely as family, friends and partners. If we accept and enable them despite the bad behavior. We enable their ignorance and delusion.