I get it, I just think it’s a bit weasel-y when people describe video footage that way. Like were they provoked? Did they kill one? It’s not that complicated.
Israel said they were “kneeling to light a Molotov cocktail” and so it wasn’t unprovoked. Problems are a) no Molotov cocktail in the clip and b) they shot someone else first, not the person kneeling. So let’s put on our fucking Sherlock hats and solve this mystery oh wow I wonder whatever could have happened
Hi. Friendly local combat vet here. This was absolutely murder. Nobody is visibly carrying weapons and the kneeling guy isn’t doing anything from the kneeling position. If he had a Molotov he’d have to come up with it to throw it. Which gives any trained soldier with their gun up and ready an eternity to shoot him. Furthermore there’s no reason to shoot at the others. The volley of bullets is absolutely too much force for what might be one guy, away from the group. Operating procedures for infantry are pretty clear for this, the soldier that spots the possible threat stays on it until told otherwise and the squad leader either has confidence in him or calls for his best shooter to take over.
It’s impossible for us to know if this is a training problem, a command climate problem, or a straight up murder problem, but it takes a lot of de-humanization, hate, or fear to shoot at unarmed people. All of which are supposed to be tightly controlled by leaders. For example we drew the line at carrying weapons in 2003. If you had a weapon and weren’t actively surrendering, you were a “target” not a person. Until someone picked up a weapon though they were people deserving of our best efforts to protect them and speed them away from the combat area.
The IDF in no way meets these standards. For that alone they should be shamed and embargoed.
You’d think the 99% of posters that descend from European genocidal countries or colonisers, would cut us some slack for seeing our own warts, but it’s easier to hate us and those of us stuck with the shit parts
Oh I’m not talking about a training deficit for this one squad. I’m talking force wide. One way to commit war crimes is to just never train scenarios with civilians. Train that everything not in a friendly uniform is a threat. Notably command climate is also a war crime. That’s why we hung the Nazi officers who tried to say they never “ordered” any crimes, even though there was massive evidence of crimes being committed.
There’s no screenshot scenario where this isn’t a war crime. It’s just a matter of how deep the rot goes. I’m sorry I wasn’t clear about that.
Edited because of Google Autocorrect. Left because it’s funny in an absurdist millennial kind of way.
Looks like the soldier was far away from them, and they weren’t even looking in his direction. What could they have done to provoke him? And why did he shoot the person who came back to help later?
Let your imagination run wild and lets see what you can come up with.
But it does appear that way. And they probably didn’t get any “real” confirmation that the video is real.
I get it, I just think it’s a bit weasel-y when people describe video footage that way. Like were they provoked? Did they kill one? It’s not that complicated.
Israel said they were “kneeling to light a Molotov cocktail” and so it wasn’t unprovoked. Problems are a) no Molotov cocktail in the clip and b) they shot someone else first, not the person kneeling. So let’s put on our fucking Sherlock hats and solve this mystery oh wow I wonder whatever could have happened
a careful cut or edit, could make all the difference.
given that the video is specifically presented as ‘unprovoked’ i’m going to guess it wasn’t.
Hi. Friendly local combat vet here. This was absolutely murder. Nobody is visibly carrying weapons and the kneeling guy isn’t doing anything from the kneeling position. If he had a Molotov he’d have to come up with it to throw it. Which gives any trained soldier with their gun up and ready an eternity to shoot him. Furthermore there’s no reason to shoot at the others. The volley of bullets is absolutely too much force for what might be one guy, away from the group. Operating procedures for infantry are pretty clear for this, the soldier that spots the possible threat stays on it until told otherwise and the squad leader either has confidence in him or calls for his best shooter to take over.
It’s impossible for us to know if this is a training problem, a command climate problem, or a straight up murder problem, but it takes a lot of de-humanization, hate, or fear to shoot at unarmed people. All of which are supposed to be tightly controlled by leaders. For example we drew the line at carrying weapons in 2003. If you had a weapon and weren’t actively surrendering, you were a “target” not a person. Until someone picked up a weapon though they were people deserving of our best efforts to protect them and speed them away from the combat area.
The IDF in no way meets these standards. For that alone they should be shamed and embargoed.
What country are you from? I respect your perspective and thoughtfulness. I really appreciate you spending the effort on this comment.
The US. And yeah I’m aware that even at our best we had failures.
You’d think the 99% of posters that descend from European genocidal countries or colonisers, would cut us some slack for seeing our own warts, but it’s easier to hate us and those of us stuck with the shit parts
From this video? Yes. From the fact that the IDF is currently committing honest to God genocide, it’s the latter.
Oh I’m not talking about a training deficit for this one squad. I’m talking force wide. One way to commit war crimes is to just never train scenarios with civilians. Train that everything not in a friendly uniform is a threat. Notably command climate is also a war crime. That’s why we hung the Nazi officers who tried to say they never “ordered” any crimes, even though there was massive evidence of crimes being committed.
There’s no
screenshotscenario where this isn’t a war crime. It’s just a matter of how deep the rot goes. I’m sorry I wasn’t clear about that.Edited because of Google Autocorrect. Left because it’s funny in an absurdist millennial kind of way.
Yeah in that case I’m going to guess Israel was torturing innocents just out of shot. Since we can just ignore the video and believe what we want
Looks like the soldier was far away from them, and they weren’t even looking in his direction. What could they have done to provoke him? And why did he shoot the person who came back to help later?
Let your imagination run wild and lets see what you can come up with.
Yeah, because your aversion to declarative headlines changes the fact that IDF does that all the fucking time 🙄