- cross-posted to:
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- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
This post is in part a response to an aspect of Nate’s post “Does Wayland really break everything?“, but also my reflection on discussing Wayland protocol additions, a unique pleasure that I have been involved with for the past months.
Before I start I want to make a few things clear: The Linux desktop will be moving to Wayland – this is a fact at this point (and has been for a while), sticking to X11 makes no sense for future projects.
By switching to Wayland compositors, we are already forcing a lot of porting work onto toolkit developers and application developers. This is annoying, but just work that has to be done. It becomes frustrating though if Wayland provides toolkits with absolutely no way to reach their goal in any reasonable way.
Many missing bits or altered behavior are just papercuts, but those add up. And if users will have a worse experience, this will translate to more support work, or people not wanting to use the software on the respective platform.
What’s missing?
- Window positioning
- Window position restoration
- Window icons
- Limited window abilities requiring specialized protocols
- Automated GUI testing / accessibility / automation
I spent probably way too much time looking into how to get applications cross-platform and running on Linux, often talking to vendors (FLOSS and proprietary) as well. Wayland limitations aren’t the biggest issue by far, but they do start to come come up now, especially in the scientific space with Ubuntu having switched to Wayland by default. For application authors there is often no way to address these issues.
Again, they’ve had well over a decade to move to Wayland. It hasn’t been suddenly sprung upon them.
If they don’t want to move, they don’t have to. But that does basically entail giving up on Linux.
And it doesn’t provide zero new functionality… I do things on my PCs that I can’t do with X11. Multiple monitors with different scaling and refresh rates, tear-free, 1-to-1 gestures, actual security, better performance, fewer bugs, soon there will be HDR. All stuff that’s either not possible with X11 or require hacky workarounds.
You talk of the “Wayland team”, but you need to understand… the “Wayland team” is the X11 team. They are the same people. They left X11 and have moved to Wayland.
Tbh, all of this bickering is futile. We know Wayland is the present (of most distros anyway), and the future. App developers can either accept that or they can abandon Linux. There’s not really a viable medium-long term alternative, even the slower-moving projects are moving to it. X11 is on life support.
This is like when everyone was complaining about the move away from DOS. At some point, people have to accept that the platform has been updated.
Are you under the impression that I’m arguing against moving to Wayland? I’m not. I’m saying the team has done a shit job of managing the migration. And yes - that’s the X11 team.