The law also imposes a curfew blocking minors from accessing platforms between 10:30 pm and 6:30 am.
You know… when I was in high school back in the early 90s, I’d spend half the night on local BBSes, which were sort of proto-social media restricted to a single phone number you could dial, and a little later I used IRC and Usenet by dialing in to the university computing system. And you know what happened? I was sleepy, but I made a lot of friends, some of them for life. There’s a guy from Turkey I met on IRC when we were both in high school and I lived in the U.S. in Indiana. We still talk and we’re both in our 40s. It was worth every minute. Even the times where I got harassed, and I did get harassed, on those local BBSes.
Somehow I survived all of that without turning into a drooling imbecile, a juvenile delinquent or commit suicide in my teens. (I also played D&D!)
Teenagers stay up late. That’s just how they are. Let them enjoy it.
Now, in my beliefs, I agree with you, having also lived that dialup BBS life in the late 80s and early 90s. But part of me always triggers when I hear “when I was a kid, I [did thing] and I turned out fine!” Because maybe we did, and those that didn’t aren’t posting about it. The same arguments are used about bike helmets and seat belts.
The social media of today is like comparing “I ate hamburgers as a kid, and I turned out fine,” and comparing them to eating fast food burgers every day. There’s a difference in volume, calories, and lifestyle.
We should be making decisions on what’s appropriate using science, not feels. I don’t know if the Utah law is based on any sound research, but given that it’s Utah, I’m assuming not.
I’m not saying they’re wrong, but yeah, it really comes off as how boomers talk about how they lived through lead paint/gas “just fine” and worked their way through college. Things have exponentially shifted since the heyday of irc and chatrooms, and while I don’t think a dumb curfew is the solution, it’s a problem that needs some sort of addressing.
In terms of the amount of information you can take in, sure. In terms of the psychological damage, I’m not so sure. There was plenty of harassment and bullying on BBSes. As I said, I got harassed. I had also developed a ‘fuck you, I don’t care what you say’ attitude to pretty much anyone who decided to be a dick to me by that point, so it didn’t really affect me, but a more insecure teen? Just as many problems as social media today I suspect. There were just less kids doing it.
I did the same thing as you, at the same time, and had similar experiences. (Except I played MUDs more than I spent time on Usenet. Still, I made friends for life.)
The social media experience today isn’t anything like the experience on those old BBSes. I was just remarking to someone yesterday that Facebook’s process of tracking which ads stay on your screen – even if they’re not clicked – has finally defeated my policy of never clicking on anything in Facebook. I watched it slowly adapt to show me things that got me to stop and look, and now my feed is a steady stream of little dopamine hits, and very little social interaction.
I don’t know that curfews will make any difference, but clearly the social media landscape of today is way, way worse than what we were exposed to, and it needs to be regulated.
Not Lemmy, though! So far it’s the closest thing I’ve seen to the old BBSes in a long time.
I was a little after you, I played a few BBS games, but was mostly a forums guy.
I’m not really talking about the harassment so much as the mental engagement required. It just feels like things on the internet are becoming more like tv in the sense that people are passive consumers and not engaging in actual conversations or meaningful interactions. And most content used to be created by average users with little to gain financially. Now everything is monetized with influences and…
I understand why you would think that, but I sincerely think its a different type of experience.
Forums and BBS were not bottomless content like tiktok Facebook insta, YouTube. Whenever you refresh the page new content shows up. And the content is designed to be bite sized - 15 seconds for tiktok, youtube shorts… and they are mostly passive. You barely interact with them usually you like, share, whatever and move on.
TV is the worst because it is 100% passive.
Reading a book is mostly passive but requires your imagination.
Some games are engaging and require skill or creativity.
Forums encourage conversation. If there was no conversation on something that got posted - be it text or a link to a video or whatever - then the thread would disappear into the back pages.
But I’m open to the possibility that I’m being an old geezer romanticizing the past. I’m not immune to that phenomenon.
Well, I consider music closer to reading because it often requires interpretation of lyrics and has no accompanied visuals usually.
Regardless, I can admit that for me and my problems with SFV it is largely a gut and emotional feeling that I have against them. I feel like it is much less mentally stimulating than most other online entertainment but I don’t have any solid data for backing that up.
I don’t think everyone who listens to music is engaging with the music. People will be shocked that Rage Against the Machine is political despite listening to them for years.
My issue with SFV is entirely with the content that is more popular in the medium. I’ve seen SFV that promotes learning in bite-sized chunks and I’ve seen some that are entirely wholesome and uplifting. Just like some people can watch Jersey Shore, read Atlas Shrugged, or listen to mumble rap and I will consider that a waste.
I don’t think I have the right to tell everyone what they can do with their time. So I don’t support the condemnation of something just because I don’t approve of it.
This is utah though, a state mostly controlled by mormons. The mormon families I know take all their kids’ electronics before they are to go to bed, and don’t give them back until the morning, some incl 18yo in high school. Monitoring everything they look at to make sure they don’t see anything that could make them question their beliefs is common
This is just them pushing the strict control all the hyper religious families in utah already exercise onto everyone else, like all the other silly laws in utah
Oh yeah, those phone bills. I would find BBSs in the local computer magazine, thinking they were local. But for some reason, my area code was big enough that part of it was long distance. I can’t imagine doing it today, but it sure seemed worth it to spend forever at 1200 baud, downloading a black and white topless picture of Morgan Fairchild.
Now that I think about it I could have probably just bought a couple games instead of giving the phone company $200 a month at times. But games were often diaappointments. Certain games like Ultima I would buy but others I would try first lol.
Haha. I did that too. I used to download porn pics from the internet since I could use my dad’s university account, then upload them to the BBS, get a huge ratio, then download all the games I wanted. Then I had games AND porn.
I ran 3 BBSs when I was a teenager, I learned to get a thick skin pretty early. When some 50yo dude that’s paying for a modem to watch porn at 9600baud starts loosing his shit on you, you learn to handle yourself or you’d go under quickly.
You know… when I was in high school back in the early 90s, I’d spend half the night on local BBSes, which were sort of proto-social media restricted to a single phone number you could dial, and a little later I used IRC and Usenet by dialing in to the university computing system. And you know what happened? I was sleepy, but I made a lot of friends, some of them for life. There’s a guy from Turkey I met on IRC when we were both in high school and I lived in the U.S. in Indiana. We still talk and we’re both in our 40s. It was worth every minute. Even the times where I got harassed, and I did get harassed, on those local BBSes.
Somehow I survived all of that without turning into a drooling imbecile, a juvenile delinquent or commit suicide in my teens. (I also played D&D!)
Teenagers stay up late. That’s just how they are. Let them enjoy it.
This could also be survivors bias.
Now, in my beliefs, I agree with you, having also lived that dialup BBS life in the late 80s and early 90s. But part of me always triggers when I hear “when I was a kid, I [did thing] and I turned out fine!” Because maybe we did, and those that didn’t aren’t posting about it. The same arguments are used about bike helmets and seat belts.
The social media of today is like comparing “I ate hamburgers as a kid, and I turned out fine,” and comparing them to eating fast food burgers every day. There’s a difference in volume, calories, and lifestyle.
We should be making decisions on what’s appropriate using science, not feels. I don’t know if the Utah law is based on any sound research, but given that it’s Utah, I’m assuming not.
I’m not saying they’re wrong, but yeah, it really comes off as how boomers talk about how they lived through lead paint/gas “just fine” and worked their way through college. Things have exponentially shifted since the heyday of irc and chatrooms, and while I don’t think a dumb curfew is the solution, it’s a problem that needs some sort of addressing.
Jesus. I don’t remember writing this post, but I guess I did. I wonder when I created the alt account name I wrote this on.
I agree, but a BBS where you are communicating via text is very different from doom scrolling Tik Tok
In terms of the amount of information you can take in, sure. In terms of the psychological damage, I’m not so sure. There was plenty of harassment and bullying on BBSes. As I said, I got harassed. I had also developed a ‘fuck you, I don’t care what you say’ attitude to pretty much anyone who decided to be a dick to me by that point, so it didn’t really affect me, but a more insecure teen? Just as many problems as social media today I suspect. There were just less kids doing it.
I did the same thing as you, at the same time, and had similar experiences. (Except I played MUDs more than I spent time on Usenet. Still, I made friends for life.)
The social media experience today isn’t anything like the experience on those old BBSes. I was just remarking to someone yesterday that Facebook’s process of tracking which ads stay on your screen – even if they’re not clicked – has finally defeated my policy of never clicking on anything in Facebook. I watched it slowly adapt to show me things that got me to stop and look, and now my feed is a steady stream of little dopamine hits, and very little social interaction.
I don’t know that curfews will make any difference, but clearly the social media landscape of today is way, way worse than what we were exposed to, and it needs to be regulated.
Not Lemmy, though! So far it’s the closest thing I’ve seen to the old BBSes in a long time.
I was a little after you, I played a few BBS games, but was mostly a forums guy.
I’m not really talking about the harassment so much as the mental engagement required. It just feels like things on the internet are becoming more like tv in the sense that people are passive consumers and not engaging in actual conversations or meaningful interactions. And most content used to be created by average users with little to gain financially. Now everything is monetized with influences and…
But isn’t that what they’re claiming is the problem? Harassment and the like?
Not really? Boredom is boredom and it sounds like you’re doing the same thing people said about video games and TV and rock and and and.
I understand why you would think that, but I sincerely think its a different type of experience.
Forums and BBS were not bottomless content like tiktok Facebook insta, YouTube. Whenever you refresh the page new content shows up. And the content is designed to be bite sized - 15 seconds for tiktok, youtube shorts… and they are mostly passive. You barely interact with them usually you like, share, whatever and move on.
TV is the worst because it is 100% passive.
Reading a book is mostly passive but requires your imagination.
Some games are engaging and require skill or creativity.
Forums encourage conversation. If there was no conversation on something that got posted - be it text or a link to a video or whatever - then the thread would disappear into the back pages.
But I’m open to the possibility that I’m being an old geezer romanticizing the past. I’m not immune to that phenomenon.
By this criticism I believe music would also fit as you’re passive.
Here’s the quick and dirty of it: Entertainment is about exploiting our brain and short-form-video is just the new thing.
Why the hell would I be bothered by SFV and not care about diets that do way worse for the health of an individual?
Well, I consider music closer to reading because it often requires interpretation of lyrics and has no accompanied visuals usually.
Regardless, I can admit that for me and my problems with SFV it is largely a gut and emotional feeling that I have against them. I feel like it is much less mentally stimulating than most other online entertainment but I don’t have any solid data for backing that up.
I don’t think everyone who listens to music is engaging with the music. People will be shocked that Rage Against the Machine is political despite listening to them for years.
My issue with SFV is entirely with the content that is more popular in the medium. I’ve seen SFV that promotes learning in bite-sized chunks and I’ve seen some that are entirely wholesome and uplifting. Just like some people can watch Jersey Shore, read Atlas Shrugged, or listen to mumble rap and I will consider that a waste.
I don’t think I have the right to tell everyone what they can do with their time. So I don’t support the condemnation of something just because I don’t approve of it.
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This is utah though, a state mostly controlled by mormons. The mormon families I know take all their kids’ electronics before they are to go to bed, and don’t give them back until the morning, some incl 18yo in high school. Monitoring everything they look at to make sure they don’t see anything that could make them question their beliefs is common
This is just them pushing the strict control all the hyper religious families in utah already exercise onto everyone else, like all the other silly laws in utah
I was there for the bootleg software but yeah. I ran up big phone bills because we lived in a rural area and everywhere was long distance.
Oh yeah, those phone bills. I would find BBSs in the local computer magazine, thinking they were local. But for some reason, my area code was big enough that part of it was long distance. I can’t imagine doing it today, but it sure seemed worth it to spend forever at 1200 baud, downloading a black and white topless picture of Morgan Fairchild.
Now that I think about it I could have probably just bought a couple games instead of giving the phone company $200 a month at times. But games were often diaappointments. Certain games like Ultima I would buy but others I would try first lol.
Haha. I did that too. I used to download porn pics from the internet since I could use my dad’s university account, then upload them to the BBS, get a huge ratio, then download all the games I wanted. Then I had games AND porn.
I ran 3 BBSs when I was a teenager, I learned to get a thick skin pretty early. When some 50yo dude that’s paying for a modem to watch porn at 9600baud starts loosing his shit on you, you learn to handle yourself or you’d go under quickly.