Wurkkos TS12 to be released soon

cedled · 1 year ago

Wurkkos TS12 to be released soon

@jerv · 1 year ago

Ah, “Disco Mode”. Yeah, it impresses the Normies, and everyone else will just 7H regardless. I’m a ramping Mode guy, and wish Zebra would put in a ramping mode. I find Turbo nice as a party trick, hand warmer, or improvised heat gun, but rarely as a light source. My UV D2’s are better at charging GITD stuff than ungawdly lumens of white light.

I consider the D4V2 to be the Gold Standard. Not the best, but as a light to compare others to. I’m not sure if the KR4 is really all that different from the D4V2, but my KR4, D4V2, and DT8 all have the same dent despite the KR4 being my only boosted Hanklight. As for not being able to use protected cells, I see no sense in allowing a light that will draw 18A to be able to take batteries that max out at 10A. And I have opinions about USB charging that make me consider being unable to use things of questionable quality and reliability a plus. I simply never trusted mini-chargers even before USB existed.

The weight of the DW4 actually makes sense to me. Aside from the actual metal portion of the head and the bezel, it’s a D4V2; same parts bins and all. Simplifies logistics. Pretty important for any business doing less than a billion dollars a year. Potentially being over 4000 lumens with a Linear+FET driver as opposed to the boost driver of the TH30 or the (far less powerful) Zebras and Skilhunts has some thermal requirements that can’t be met with thin metal. It takes thicker, heavier metal to transfer the heat from where it’s generated to where it can be shed. Then there’s the layout required to use the same boards and optics as the D4V2. To my mind, it’s as small as can be without requiring more DW4-specific parts, and as light as it can be to maintain thermals comparable to a D4V2. Now, if manufacturing were entirely “Print on demand” and all that was required for different models was changing a program in a 3D printer, then I’d fell differently. But I worked manufacturing (mostly as a CNC machinist) for long enough to understand the engineering. The D2 was entirely new from the ground up, which allowed for greater freedom of design.

I don’t see myself there. The closest is #3, but even that isn’t really close. And it seems outright derogatory towards those who aren’t, “A 3D-cell Maglite was good enough for my grandfather, so it’s good enough for me and is the only light anyone should ever need!”, folks. I’m honestly surprised he didn’t yell at the kids to get off his lawn.

That really depends on one’s idea of “matured”. I’ve been a bit of a technophile and neophile for half a century. I do not see “matured” as “becoming closer to my tastes as I, personally, get older”. My definition is closer to, “Expansion of capability”. It’s the ability to meet the needs/desires of a wider market, even if that requires a bit of a learning curve to configure it to one’s personal tastes. Anduril seems pretty close, and I think Hanklights do as well when you consider how many hardware options he offers. What you describe seems to me to be a simple matter of setting Simple Mode to a single step with Floor and Ceiling adjusted appropriately, then hitting 10H as needed. No need to edit source code and reflash.

@solrize · edit-2 1 year ago

This thread is getting long, but:

Only the FET+1 version of the D4v2 drew 18A and from what I can tell, Hank gave up on that some time ago. The present CC drivers take 5A, 7.5A, or 9A depending. I think mine is 7.5A. No idea about the boost driver.
The highest discharge 18350 that I could find with a quick search was 10A (Hank offers an 18350 tube for the D4v2), same as I see for USB charging 18650 (Vapcell P1835A). I also see a 30 amp USB-C 21700 (Acebeam IMR21700H-400A) so for the D4K, that concern simply goes away. Anyway, if the user wants to give up the “hand warmer” mode of a light to have some more flexibility in battery choices, that should be up to the user. So I think you are simply trying to rationalize a shortcoming of this light. My other 18650 light (Fenix BC21R) works fine on both protected and unprotected cells. It came with a protected cell and it’s annoying to not be able to interchange that cell between the two lights. The BC21R’s brightest mode also heats up too fast to be usable, so the protected cell isn’t the limiting factor.
All versions of the D4v2 appear to dent up batteries. The boost version with its flat spring seems to have even worse problems, but I don’t have one so am not sure of specifics.
I’m not claiming that the D4v2 is too big or heavy. I find it just right, and I’d actually prefer it slightly bigger, to accomodate protected cells. All I’ve said is that whatever Hank is after, it doesn’t seem to be weight or size minimization. The D4v2 is slightly bigger than a 1xCR123A McLux Sundrop for what it’s worth, and weighs about the same because of the Sundrop’s heavier titanium construction. And I found the Sundrop to be just about perfect for its era.
I’d consider a mature light as one conceived holistically by the designer in the context of a deep understanding of its intended usage, not compromising its usability as a light source in favor of party tricks or heat gun functions. The Spy 005 was radical but at the same time mature as conceived, even though some bugs then had to be worked out of the implementation. I’d say all the later McLuxes have the same sense of maturity. McGizmo is a real Zen master of flashlights.
As for Hank offering lots of hardware options, that is somewhat true. There is a 35mm battery tube, and a 50mm, and a 65mm. So why is he (and apparently you) he so opposed to a 70mm? I’d buy one. I’d also probably buy a D4K, if it could hold the Vapcell P2150A which is a 76.6mm 21700 with a built in power bank function. (Hmm, maybe that can fit into the D4Sv2 with the 26800 tube and a spacer).

@jerv · 1 year ago

The present linear drivers are also available in 12A, and have a FET. Whatever rating your driver is becomes irrelevant once the FET kicks in though, so most folks will go well past 10A with most emitters. Allowing one the option to put in a battery that may well get tripped by trying to draw 15-30A off of a 10A cell would seems more like a liability than a desirable feature.

If the user wants to have a more powerful light than a 10A cell can power, and is willing to give up the ability to use a battery they have no interest in using anyways, that should also be up to the user. Not all makers have to have the same set of features and specs, and not all lights are for all people. There’s a reason why there are so many makers and such a wide variety of lights on the market. I don’t see different things being different as a shortcoming.

“Intended usage” means different things to different people. And for a lot of makers, “intended usage” includes selling to people who aren’t willing/able to pay $500-2,000 for a flashlight. Not all people who wear a watch wear a Rolex or Patek Philippe. As for the actual light design, some folks legitimately need powerful beams of light for only a moment or two, and not all who want a light that has that power use it only for “party tricks”. Taking that away seems to me to compromise a light’s usability more than allowing it with the caveat that thermal rampdown exists.

I don’t think there’s enough people buying boost-driven lights that also want to use protected cells to justify the cost of producing and storing such a low-volume part. However, there are people who would try running a protected cell in a linear+FET light without dropping the ceiling that would complain about their light shutting off when it trips the protection circuit. And while the Acebeam 21700 may have the ability to power a D4K, all it’d take is one person putting that same tube on a DT8K to have the same issue.

@solrize · edit-2 1 year ago

The fact is the D4v2 already accomodates one type of battery (the 18350) whose max current is 10A, so adding another shouldn’t be different. And I can program the firmware to lock out the highest current levels, or maybe even have it detect the battery voltage sag and limit the current automatically. So more rationalizing. And you ignored that 30 amp USB-C 21700 that can handle anything the D4K can throw at it, if it could only fit in the light.

The Photon II is also a mature light. You can get knockoffs of it for 50 cents on ali express.

I don’t know of another light comparable to the D4v2. The D4v2 does everything I want (plus some stuff I don’t care about). The one thing missing is a 5mm longer battery tube.

@jerv · 1 year ago

An unprotected 18350 still has a surge rating that can operate the light at reduced levels long enough for thermal rampdown to drop it to lower levels with lower amp draw. A protected cell has a hard cap that shuts the light off completely. Dimmer Turbo is different from, “Hey, my light is broken! HANK SUCKS!”. And you ignored the DT8K comment, as well as the logistics around something of such limited demand. The only way around it I can see, which is making it impossible to put the 21750 tube on a DT8K, runs into the same logistics problem. Like I said before, I might feel differently if all manufacturing were “print on demand”, but as it stands, it makes perfect sense to me why it is the way it is. Besides, wouldn’t a sleeve allow a protected 18650 to fit in a D4K?

@solrize · 1 year ago

Protected 18650 in a D4k is an interesting idea, might work, thanks. I will ask Toykeeper if Anduril could notice current limiting in a protected cell. If it a sudden dropout with no voltage sag leading up to it, then it might be difficult. Still, the same question recurs: why not support protected cells in the D4K? The current limit excuse is gone, with the 30 amp protected cells.

I see the space heater mode as similar to the disco lights, basically a party trick. I can do without both. The BC21R works fine on a protected cell and has a heater mode advertised at 1000 lumens. Bathroom comparison with the D4v2 says the D4v2 is brighter by maybe a half stop, but i have to compare carefully to notice the difference. Both are too bright (they wash out my vision) for close range use anyway, and they heat up too fast for steady outdoor use. A momentary turbo mode can be handy for outdoor distance spotting, but a D4v2 with 219a’s and flood optics is the wrong light for that anyway. If I want a thrower I’ll buy one for the purpose.

I do realize there is not much differentiation between BLF lights, so buyers look at the lumen spec and pick the biggest number, but some of us are more discerning ;). Anyway, Hank offers all those hardware options, so it seems like a simple matter for him that if you order a D4v2 with a 70mm tube, it can be set to lock out current draw above whatever. That should just be a software setting. I think it was Bill Gates who said 640 lumens should be enough for anyone (oh wait). Didn’t you tell me that you yourself don’t use the max level of the d4v2 for lighting? My D4v2 does (eyeball guess from BC21R comparison) around 1400, so if it becomes 1000 or a bit lower with a battery swap, I can live with that. I’m pretty sure it dims a little as the battery depletes anyway. I did the bathroom test with a just-charged cell.

I’m having trouble believing the linear driver pulls anything like 18 amps from the battery. That is 60+ watts, 15+ watts per led, and they are not rated for that. I may try some tailcap measurements. It is certainly a waste of battery power, since the leds are way less efficient at such levels. It solves an imaginary problem.

My brightest light really is a 3D incandescent maglight (the notorious Ultimate Stealth Light from CPF). It uses a handmade high current nicad pack and a 100 watt slide projector bulb for around 3000 lumens. You can feel the air around it get warmer when you turn it on. I never use it though.

I don’t see what the DT8K has to do with this. I don’t particularly want a DT8K.